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6. Re: Definition of the word "mind" (Leo Faulhaber)
Hi everybody The definition of the word "mind" (noun) as used in TROM seems to be existent in one of the normal English definitions of the word "to mind" (verb), namely "to object to". In TROM terminology that would be: "having conflicting postulates". So the mind could be considered as a collection of present and past counter-postulates. Best wishes Leo Faulhaber 2012/7/4 <[email protected]> > Send Trom mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: a thought about Nirvana (Paul Tipon) > 2. Re: a thought about Nirvana (David M. Pelly) > 3. Re: a thought about Nirvana (Paul Tipon) > 4. Re: a thought about Nirvana (Pete Mclaughlin) > 5. Re: Could use some advice/ps (Pete Mclaughlin) > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 12:16:50 -0700 > From: Paul Tipon <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [TROM1] a thought about Nirvana > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:08 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > It occurred to me that you would check me on the word "mind". > > > > Then I thought to let it go. (at the least it would stir > > up some agitation and we don't learn much without agitation) > > > > Because I was not using the word in the sense we use it or define it. > > > > (In this area, we have created or defined mind according to our own > > viewpoint, or articulated a hypothesis, which may not be fact > > either. ) > > > > I was using it the way the people in those groups might mean it. > > Because it is their word. (The Hindi, Sihks, Buddists) > > > > Based on my experience, I think they ( at least some) would see or > > mean mind, consciousness, or existence to roughly mean or be > > synonymous. > > > > Although technically speaking they would be wrong, or others more > > advanced would consider them wrong. > > > > This an on going debate amongst many. > > > You are correct in your musings about the employment of the word > mind. I made my suggestion to not use it purely with the intent that > the multitude of different diverse meanings not come into play. My > intention was to make a statement that would communicate most > specifically what my thoughts were. It looks to me like you were in > tune with that and also considered the same. My idea was that my > communication should be a simple as possible, as narrow as possible > to only ascribe the thought I wished to convey. I'm guessing that it > did. > > > And we are all talking through our hats, because we are all still > > effect of what ever the cause is. > > > > If we knew the truth, the truth would set us free, from being > > effect. And we would not be having this discussion. > > > > Not? > > > Yes if one is talking about the physical universe. That is where > flows reside and flows are a necessary component of cause and > effect. In a spiritual universe where there is no space and > therefore occupied my nothing (spirits and their thoughts), by > definition, there is no cause and effect. It could not be anything > other than so. For if it were not then Theta and spirits could be > the effect of others and other external forces. The definition of > Theta and spiritual universes do not have that component hence the > Theta and spiritual universe can be an environment for God or Gods, > those who are not the effect of anything put what they decide to be > the effect of and their postulates only effecting themselves about > themselves and no other Thetans/spirits. > > So in just this environment, the concept of the mind would be an > entity with just those postulates that each individual Thetan/spirit > has created and which only effect that creator of such. Others can > join in with and be the effect only by choosing to do so (their own > postulate). There is no cause, distance, effect in the Theta/ > spiritual universe. > > > :) > > > > David > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 15:38:51 -0400 > From: "David M. Pelly" <[email protected]> > To: TROM List <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] a thought about Nirvana > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > > > > > And we are all talking through our hats, because we are all still > > > effect of what ever the cause is. > > > > > > If we knew the truth, the truth would set us free, from being > > > effect. And we would not be having this discussion. > > > > > > Not? > > > > > Yes if one is talking about the physical universe. That is where > > flows reside and flows are a necessary component of cause and > > effect. > > > As far as I know, the physical universe is the only one we can talk > about in practical or realistic matters. > > Anything else is just speculation. > > And I found such activity to be lofty, head in the clouds, and of > little value other than entertainment. > > Too much time in that area also causes one to become ungrounded and > unrealistic. > > Society tends to view those types unfavorably. > > :) > > > David > > > > > > > In a spiritual universe where there is no space and > > therefore occupied my nothing (spirits and their thoughts), by > > definition, there is no cause and effect. It could not be anything > > other than so. For if it were not then Theta and spirits could be > > the effect of others and other external forces. The definition of > > Theta and spiritual universes do not have that component hence the > > Theta and spiritual universe can be an environment for God or Gods, > > those who are not the effect of anything put what they decide to be > > the effect of and their postulates only effecting themselves about > > themselves and no other Thetans/spirits. > > > > So in just this environment, the concept of the mind would be an > > entity with just those postulates that each individual Thetan/spirit > > has created and which only effect that creator of such. Others can > > join in with and be the effect only by choosing to do so (their own > > postulate). There is no cause, distance, effect in the Theta/ > > spiritual universe. > > > > > :) > > > > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20120703/80808c2f/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 14:11:47 -0700 > From: Paul Tipon <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [TROM1] a thought about Nirvana > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:08 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > At that fleeting moment of a win you stop playing the game you were > > playing and have not yet found a new game to play so you feel at > > peace and happy. yes, but this suggests that you need to play games > > and win games to reach this feeling. > > > Very good up to the point where you add in "suggests ... There is > not the suggestion of "need to play games". Deciding to do something > and doing it or deciding not to do something and not doing that > something is not a game. It is just a pure consideration and then > the attendant action or no action. One then looks back upon the > decision and the action of just that one decision only. The action > may be as simple as to just have an idea or a thought. If the action > is a physical activity doingness and one adds in a thought about that > doingness then there is the evaluation of the doingness and that > evaluation is not a component of or for Nirvana. One needs to just > consider was what decided was done and nothing else. > > > in fact what you are saying is that when you stop playing games you > > feel good. so Lester Levenson's directed meditation consisiting of > > holding the point of view: > > simply being, that is existing > > This does in fact give a moment of Nirvana. It is a very simple > action and a 'Win'. > > > Joy filled, lacking nothing, feeling you have everything you need > > and harmless to everyone, not playing any games > > > Needing to also have these criteria makes one have to further > evaluate by one's emotion, evaluate, evaluate and evaluate, be sure > to inspect that one has not played a game. These are additives that > may or may not be concurrent with Nirvana for Nirvana to be > achieved. They are not a necessity. It is like doing Dennis' ... > 'If this, then that..", bonding logic. No logic is required or > necessary for one to achieve Nirvana. Nirvana comes first and then > if one wishes, they may add descriptions, statuses and results. > > > is the method to directly arrive at Nirvana > > > > this fits nicely with the whole operation of TROM of finding the > > games i am playing and timebreaking them till i am playing no games. > > > As I have said in the past it is not the game that one is playing but > the fact that in a game one also employs 'games conditions'. There > is a distinct difference. > > > > > Keep On TROMing > > Pete > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:46:55 -0700 > From: Pete Mclaughlin <[email protected]> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] a thought about Nirvana > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Paul > I see your point. Just Beng with out any complications is all that is > needed. > > but we are trying to describe how people are not just being so they can > look at and as is or timebreak what the are doing that is stopping the from > just being. > > Thanks for your comments > > Keep on TROMing > Pete > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> wrote: > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:08 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > >> At that fleeting moment of a win you stop playing the game you were > playing and have not yet found a new game to play so you feel at peace and > happy. yes, but this suggests that you need to play games and win games to > reach this feeling. > >> > > Very good up to the point where you add in "suggests ... There is not > the suggestion of "need to play games". Deciding to do something and doing > it or deciding not to do something and not doing that something is not a > game. It is just a pure consideration and then the attendant action or no > action. One then looks back upon the decision and the action of just that > one decision only. The action may be as simple as to just have an idea or > a thought. If the action is a physical activity doingness and one adds in > a thought about that doingness then there is the evaluation of the > doingness and that evaluation is not a component of or for Nirvana. One > needs to just consider was what decided was done and nothing else. > > > >> in fact what you are saying is that when you stop playing games you > feel good. so Lester Levenson's directed meditation consisiting of holding > the point of view: > >> simply being, that is existing > > > > This does in fact give a moment of Nirvana. It is a very simple action > and a 'Win'. > > > >> Joy filled, lacking nothing, feeling you have everything you need > >> and harmless to everyone, not playing any games > >> > > Needing to also have these criteria makes one have to further evaluate > by one's emotion, evaluate, evaluate and evaluate, be sure to inspect that > one has not played a game. These are additives that may or may not be > concurrent with Nirvana for Nirvana to be achieved. They are not a > necessity. It is like doing Dennis' ... 'If this, then that..", bonding > logic. No logic is required or necessary for one to achieve Nirvana. > Nirvana comes first and then if one wishes, they may add descriptions, > statuses and results. > > > >> is the method to directly arrive at Nirvana > >> > >> this fits nicely with the whole operation of TROM of finding the games > i am playing and timebreaking them till i am playing no games. > >> > > As I have said in the past it is not the game that one is playing but > the fact that in a game one also employs 'games conditions'. There is a > distinct difference. > > > >> > >> Keep On TROMing > >> Pete > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 20:48:24 -0700 > From: Pete Mclaughlin <[email protected]> > To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [TROM1] Could use some advice/ps > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi David > hope you are feeling better. are you using TROM or something else to > handle this manifestation? > > Sincerely > Pete > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 2, 2012, at 7:39 PM, "David M. Pelly" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > I want to add that that mass permeates my entire head, causing some > electrical activity. > > > > Especially when I close my eyes and get into it. > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] > > To: [email protected] > > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:31:43 -0400 > > Subject: [TROM1] Could use some advice > > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > > > Over an hour ago, I either got some bad energy sent to me or I got some > bad energy restimulated in me. I haven't had this happen, this intensely > for quite some time. If it is the same thing. I am not certain. Likely is. > When I close my eyes, and get into it, it feels like a dense black mass > encompassing mainly my head, face and upper body. Another analogy is like > invisible tar encompassing me. Or a black yucky mass covering me. When I > get into it, and try to make it more intense, it does or did different > things, like swirl around me, or it sort of feels like it spreads tenticles > around me, and then it settles down. It is difficult to describe more > accurately. I think I had at least a similar thing or similar experience > quite some time ago. Like more than a year ago. Haven't had much trouble in > the last yr or so. Been more stable than not. I feel the sensation mostly > in the surface of my body. I get the idea that it could be an entity. Maybe > it is just some cellular release. > Maybe something is just coming to the surface to be dealt with? Anyone > ever have something like this? And know what to do with it? Anyone know how > to clear this? I was doing some solo six way on it for a few minutes, but I > suppose most of you know how that goes, I loose interest in it quickly. But > the six way exercise does seem to stir it up somewhat. I would like to get > it cleared while it is active, or in view, what ever it is. Any suggestions > would be appreciated. Thanks, David > > > > Over an hour ago, I either got some bad energy sent to me or I got some > bad energy restimulated in me. > > > > I haven't had this happen, this intensely for quite some time. > > > > > > If it is the same thing. I am not certain. > > > > Likely is. > > > > When I close my eyes, and get into it, it feels like a dense black mass > encompassing mainly my head, face and upper body. > > > > Another analogy is like invisible tar encompassing me. > > > > Or a black yucky mass covering me. > > > > > > > > When I get into it, and try to make it more intense, it does or did > different things, like swirl around me, or it sort of feels like it > spreads tenticles around me, and then it settles down. > > > > > > It is difficult to describe more accurately. > > > > > > > > > > I think I had at least a similar thing or similar experience quite some > time ago. > > > > Like more than a year ago. Haven't had much trouble in the last yr or > so. > > > > > > Been more stable than not. > > > > > > > > I feel the sensation mostly in the surface of my body. > > > > I get the idea that it could be an entity. > > > > Maybe it is just some cellular release. > > > > Maybe something is just coming to the surface to be dealt with? > > > > > > Anyone ever have something like this? > > > > And know what to do with it? > > > > Anyone know how to clear this? > > > > > > > > I was doing some solo six way on it for a few minutes, but I suppose > most of you know how that goes, I loose interest in it quickly. > > > > But the six way exercise does seem to stir it up somewhat. > > > > I would like to get it cleared while it is active, or in view, what > ever it is. > > > > Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list > [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20120703/9111321c/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > End of Trom Digest, Vol 96, Issue 16 > ************************************ >
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