************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************ Hi Paul I have a fair amount of math background from my degree in computer science and work developing computer networks but I never found that the math caused anything. Mathematics is the language that communicates precise quantities that will result from measured Inputs. Dennis uses the logical algebra to show what action or postulates will cause precise conditions in the mind. If a religious wacko decides that women who don't wear birquas should be stoned this is caused by their compulsive games condition not by Dennis' algebra. I am a must know so I consider it important to know the algebra but I can see and Dennis says one does not have to understand the theory for the process to work.
Sincerely Pete Sent from my iPad On Aug 26, 2012, at 7:39 PM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> wrote: > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Hi Function > > I have been following your posts and find them overall quite interesting. I > can't say that I am following much of what you say about Spare because I have > not read those works yet. I do agree with what you say about Dennis and > TROM. On my own in my piece by piece posting about TROM and Scn I have > worked to point out the same as you. I have not done it as directly (full > frontal faceoff assault, kind of confront) but piece by piece on the belief > that the smaller piece would be more easily acceptable than the whole chunk > at once. Sadly I have run into blind faith when pointing out illogic and > showing truth. > > A couple of questions/remarks: > > In your title you make the statement "Why Dennis Lied about TROM", I didn't > get an answer on that. I do see and get the points that are lies. I assume > that you may not have meant 'Why' but how and about what. I say this because > I see where it is impossible for one to really know another's unspoken > intention but certainly easy to see a lie when one knows the truth. Just > guessing but your reference to the enlightened not wishing to pass on the > abilities and power of the enlightened to the un-enlighthened due to fear is > an ageless most often unexpressed and also unknown and un-confronted fear of > most, enlightened or not. The idea that one may be creating a potential > foe/opponent of unbelievable power, understanding and wisdom beyond one's own > self. It is the biggest problem to overcome in becoming a expert at > producing quality auditing sessions and of course delivering quality, no > holds barred auditing. As you say it has been a problem over time > immemorial. After all, we all gotta have games and setting one's self up to always be the loser is no fun at all. Of course I also understand the small think that this is obviously a product of. > > In my brief study of Dennis' work, I too found some outright lies and so > stopped my study of all save the theory and application of TimeBreaking. I > too believe this to be an extremely valuable piece of Tech. > > Lastly I wanted to go into the mathematics that Dennis employs and am > interested because of your reference to Spare and his use of mathematics. > > I did some looking into Dennis' Level 6 and with just a rudimentary perusal > came off of it. Here is why. Logic, Boolean Algebra is a logic system. As > such it is very useful and Dennis employed it quite well in coming up with > all of the tenets for his Postulate Failure Chart. However to carry that > over into what Dennis' calls 'bonding' causes problems. > Those problems are: > > The mind is not a mathematical system/machine. So for Dennis to say that one > has a 'bonding' situation in their mind is to do just that. He then goes > into an additional different Tech than TROM to explain how one can eliminate > the 'bonding' malaise from the mind. Briefly this bonding phenomenon is from > the logic - if ... then ... To me the simplicity here is that if one is > operating this way then one must have installed this method of thinking/logic > into the beingness of their mind. So rather than, as you say jump into the > swamp, the labyrinth quagmire, all one should do is eliminate this system of > thinking, not try and drain the swamp. If you actually succeeded at that, > you would still be stuck with system of always building new swamps, > labyrinths to the Goddess of Logic. There would not be any Freedom from > Logic inherent or gained. Just stop working with the logic If ... Then ... > I never have and spotted this immediately upon delving into Dennis' Level 6. > > Having not read Spare at all but with your statement of him also using > mathematics, I wonder about his use of mathematics too. > > Paul/Level 5 in progress > > On Aug 26, 2012, at 4:06 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> Hi Pete, >> >> I have a lot of sympathy with your perspective. I really do. TROM is the >> /only/ thing I would recommend as a guide to somebody who wanted >> enlightenment, and I think that both Spare and Hubbard's work are likely >> to do more damage than good without it. >> >> That's why I write to this group and not somewhere else. The people here >> have a fundamental defense. They can just timebreak anything I say if >> issues come up. Because of that I can say things and reveal perspectives >> which would be of no use, or damaging, elsewhere. The occult, >> scientology, self-help, and all spiritual fields in every country I have >> been to are riddled with power games (mind games) which you essentially >> have to be enlightened already to find your way through. Some people >> protect themselves by simply ignoring it all, which cuts them off from >> the spiritual wisdom which lies beyond the labyrinth. Some listen, and >> so spend years or lifetimes confused and entrapped. >> >> TROM is the way out. It is very, very good on its own. It is sufficient >> to help a person very much. But it is flawed and its flaws have their >> potential dangers for some individuals. Dennis was right that games can >> be fun, but he does imply at certain points that you'll give up games >> altogether and that /the calm of detachment is preferable/, and he does >> do some potentially dangerous stuff with that ethical code. That >> emphasis on detachment will be toxic to certain types of individuals who >> are passionate in the same way that a purple flower is purple, and will >> be so in absence of entrapment in games. And the code is, quite simply, >> something which imparts as truth what is merely a strategy Dennis chose >> to use to protect unenlightened beings. His intentions were good but I-- >> quite simply-- have no time for any untruth, in service of any cause. >> >> 1: detachment. It's actually not dangerous to a being to be attached and >> to fight with all the passion in the world for one's fellow beings so >> long as one has the protection of an enlightened understanding. And some >> beings /flourish/ by a heartfelt... feelingful and soulful reaction to >> the /external/ stimuli that the are immersed in. Bodhisattva sometimes >> come in this form. Poets sometimes do. People cry in anguish at the >> terrible travesties their fellow humans beings become and commit. There >> is much sadness in many forms of wisdom. And the world we live in >> contains much genuine suffering. And a child awakening to the trauma of >> monstrously damaged parents and getting passionate over it isn't really >> unenlightened. It's going through the beautiful process of learning and >> growth that a being can go through in this world. That is one of the >> beauties of this life of ours. TROM isn't usually explicit on this >> point, but /there is/ something of a.... /calm/ to it. At the very >> least, I want to make clear to people who might misinterpret that as >> /necessary /that rage and joy and agony and ecstasy-- and even evil-- >> aren't at odds with enlightenment. They are only at odds in so far as a >> being is trapped in them, and doesn't realise the structure of the game >> they are a part of, why it is playing that game, and how it can choose >> to stop at any time. They aren't necessarily part of any damaging or >> unenlightened form of 'reactive mind', and certain beings will enervate >> and de-energise themselves in so far as they /in the long run/-- not >> just whilst learning to be able to be detached and do TROM's temporary >> levels-- believe that heartfelt and impulsive, strong reactions to >> certain stimuli are something to be timebroken etc. >> >> 2. Dennis links the 'code of an ethical being' /with his epistemology. >> /Now, it's a very good code. It's a wonderful code. By all means follow >> that code /by choice/. But what Dennis did was... to impose the code >> against the being's will by asserting that not following it is in some >> relevant way damaging, which actually violates it. In the very act of >> creating the code as though it were /damaging to the being not to follow >> it/ he demonstrated that he didn't believe in it, /and that he was >> attempting to get the not _totally_/_/enlightened/_/into a state where >> they would convince themselves into being damaged every time they >> violated it/. Because the enlightened /know/ that no such code is >> inherently interlinked with the experience of being enlightened, and >> that a being can go from incarnation to incarnation, awakened, without >> following it and without having its own interests harmed for not >> following it. >> >> Most enslaving lies start out as an attempt to achieve some good. Dennis >> discussed, in the TROM manual, whether it was /ok/ to give beings such >> power as he was making available to them. And his answer was explicitly >> /his ethical code/. He implied that the enlightened would understand >> that it was simply /in error/ to violate that code. But that is not so. >> Dennis was answering a problem that many sages face in distributing >> their knowledge, and his answer was to create a /lie/ of an >> epistemology. Many sages do this. This is called 'the right hand path'. >> Any 'right hand path' school, including the Golden Dawn and almost every >> institutionalised form of mysticism, is a school based upon a lie in an >> attempt to keep dangerously powerful knowledge within structures that >> lie about themselves. >> >> The thing is, /every RHP school _is a violation of the code and the >> limitations they propagate_/_._ Every RHP school is an attempt to entrap >> a being against its will, to protect society from that being's newfound >> power. And, in so far as it propagates a code like TROM's as though it >> were a cosmological necessity (which most do), /it is a violation of >> that code/. /It is a hypnotic implant/ /from a more knowing being into a >> less knowing being, to control the less knowing being in accordance with >> the more knowing being's will/. You can see why they do this: they don't >> want people fucking around with taking over the world and getting slaves >> for themselves as they achieve more and more power. So they pretend that >> these activities will harm the being, and that very pretense and the >> belief in it is the only thing which will actually harm the being. They >> hope that by the time a being /does /reach enlightenment he'll be so >> socially connected to the structure that he'll just choose to carry on >> with it, or will have seen by example that the hypnotism was the right >> path for the school to take. And many of them deliberately only >> /partially /enlighten either all adherents or any adherent they don't >> trust to follow and perpetuate the code, or make certain /vows/ a >> prerequisite to receiving the most potent forms of knowledge. >> >> TROM and Spare are unique in giving this understanding outside of any >> such /social /structure, but TROM is a hypnotic RHP form of >> pseudo-enlightenment in the same tradition. I am a being who will accept >> for myself and others only /*total truth*/. I do not see people have >> reached enlightenment as the ones who get to decide for others, or as >> any more qualified to do so. And over many lifetimes of playing this >> game in the inner sanctum of such schools I have seen that their >> attempts usually end up in total toxicity, only perpetuating even more >> complete forms of enslavement and confusion. That is why I associate >> with TROM and Spare, and why I am here deconstructing the lies in TROM, >> and why I am here. There is no real protection but understanding. And >> nobody can protect another in any effective sense, in the long run, >> except by enabling that being full power to protect and understand for >> itself. >> >> I recommend careful study of Spare /as the antidote/ to the lies in >> TROM, to be read after level 4 but before or during level 5. His work is >> actually perfectly logically and sensibly written. It's just hard to >> grasp that at first because of how /sheer and pure/ his presentation of >> truth is. You just need to make sure you understand exactly what every >> words means and how it is being used, and be careful to make sure that >> you understand how he's using grammar. It's often now what you think at >> first. Each chapter is like an equation. If any part doesn't make total >> mathematical sense, carry on and don't act on your understanding of it >> yet. Ignore /Ethos/, his book about techniques and magic. Spare's work >> has its own flaws, but the purpose for this reccomendation is that >> grasping /Spare's/ mathematical/logical purity, which leads to different >> conclusions that TROM's, will nullify the belief that TROM's seeming >> logical purity is the only possible one. It will free a being from both. >> >> >> All my love, >> >> Function > > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom _______________________________________________ Trom mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
