Send Trom mailing list submissions to
[email protected]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Trom digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Kindle version of Manual plus additions (Aarre Peltomaa)
2. Re: Kindle version of Manual plus additions (Aarre Peltomaa)
3. Re: Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin (Aarre Peltomaa)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:26:24 -0500
From: Aarre Peltomaa <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions
Message-ID:
<canrdadqras1jiwcdbutbrl-iz4hnomw2evmxnrw42nibank...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi Paul,
Aarre
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]>wrote:
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Hi Glen,
Very well put. I couldn't agree more.
Paul, Level 5 in progress
On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or
reach enlightenment. And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a
way that would work the same way for every human being. And that he
expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily
understandable way. And that the editors did the best possible job of
presenting this material.
(All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written
document.)
You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always
interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way.
What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique
understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them or
doesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, it
would be a mental straightjacket (IMHO).
Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of
interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or
the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every
Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their
personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with
some flexibility or wither.
' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago, and also
observed that; I still think that the original document should be as
close to original source as possible, and then simpler (average guy)
editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is stated
bluntly in the beginning. Then individuals could slightly adjust the data
as you stated in their application. This slight alteration insures the
perpetuation of the work; According to LRH, to persist, there must be a
slight alteration. A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically
cause a vanishment. The original document should be pristine however, so
that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical application
when needed and wanted. Perhaps, allowing a slight alteration in
application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate
set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long,
long, time.' Aarre Peltomaa
p.s. does this sound correct at all ?
So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be
the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people,
especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all
the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be
gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that
is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a big
step forward.
(And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testing
to see how well they actually work for most people will perform the biggest
service of all.)
______________________________**_________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/13376927/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 22:33:09 -0500
From: Aarre Peltomaa <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Kindle version of Manual plus additions
Message-ID:
<CANrDadQ2-Fwjjvocy58BT17upzHbj=erxuke0owhyzuyhwf...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
This should have more correctly been sent to Glen, rather than Paul,
Thanks, Aarre
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Aarre Peltomaa
<[email protected]>wrote:
Hi Paul,
Aarre
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]>wrote:
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Hi Glen,
Very well put. I couldn't agree more.
Paul, Level 5 in progress
On Feb 5, 2013, at 8:05 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Even if one assumes that there was one absolutely right way to heal or
reach enlightenment. And that Dennis had worked this out perfectly, in a
way that would work the same way for every human being. And that he
expressed his ideas in the clearest, most easily
understandable way. And that the editors did the best possible job of
presenting this material.
(All of which are highly doubtful assumptions in any subject or written
document.)
You will always be left with the fact that every human being will always
interpret and understand the material in a slightly different way.
What's more, one cannot own the material without developing one's unique
understanding of it, an understanding that either works for them or
doesn't. No truly literal duplication of anything exists and if it did, it
would be a mental straightjacket (IMHO).
Don't believe me? Look at how many thousands if not millions of
interpretations there are of any religious scripture like the Bible or
the Buddhist doctrines. Everything evolves. And, just like every
Christian today picks and chooses bits of the Bible that support their
personal ideas and rejects the rest, TROM will also have to evolve with
some flexibility or wither.
' I thought about this exactly the same way over a year ago, and also
observed that; I still think that the original document should be as
close to original source as possible, and then simpler (average guy)
editions could exist also, as long as their authorship/source is stated
bluntly in the beginning. Then individuals could slightly
adjust the data
as you stated in their application. This slight alteration insures the
perpetuation of the work; According to LRH, to persist, there must be a
slight alteration. A total duplication (AS - ISness) would theoretically
cause a vanishment. The original document should be pristine however, so
that wanderers could always come back to 'more' puritanical application
when needed and wanted. Perhaps, allowing a slight alteration in
application to fit more complementarily with each individual's postulate
set quirks would allow the techniques to persist through time for a long,
long, time.' Aarre Peltomaa
p.s. does this sound correct at all ?
So, it's worth preserving Dennis's original intent. But that may not be
the best presentation to reach and help the most people. Many people,
especially those who haven't studied Scientology (and fewer people do all
the time) would find the TROM materials that currently exist to be
gobbledygook. The person who can find a way to express them in a way that
is clear and appealing to the average person will take this material a big
step forward.
(And maybe the person who subjects them to rigorous double-blind testing
to see how well they actually work for most people will perform
the biggest
service of all.)
______________________________**_________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/**mailman/listinfo/trom<http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/f47064f5/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 23:12:48 -0500
From: Aarre Peltomaa <[email protected]>
To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Responsibility by Leonard Dunn. to Martin
Message-ID:
<canrdadr_z53ftsrzxcofpiqwyqmuvkidq3kns0nzlls4kwa...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Paul,
The highlighted in violet section really shook the earth under my feet;
how true that is. It allows one to decide to act or to not act also. This
will work well of course to the degree that one is uptone/ethical.
Thanks much,
Aarre
On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:28 PM, Paul Tipon <[email protected]> wrote:
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Give Unto Caesar What is Caesar's and Unto God What is God's
On Feb 4, 2013, at 5:33 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Intentional harm
By way of contrast, if ones sets out with the intention of harming
another then the backlash from this action will be in accordance with the
Law of Cause and Effect, That Which One Sows, One Reaps. The actual truth
is that one cannot harm another unless he has created the idea that he can
be harmed. This of course, is his responsibility. It follows logically
that one cannot be harmed unless one seeks to be so for the sake of
experience which may be a non-survival way of balancing up one's past
overts. That one is solely and totally responsible for everything that
happens in one's life by virtue of one having created it, for whatever
reason, is perhaps the most
difficult aspect of responsibility to understand, accept and put
into practice in one's life. It was this aspect that brought about my own
present life case completion.
The following is my take on making someone else guilty of an overt. This
action may have been like Martin states above, just a decision or making
another guilty and wrong or it could have been both at different instances
but they are both the same games condition of making another wrong, the
blame game.
This is a very critical concept and a juncture in the change of one's
existence, well beyond any one life time just as Martin is saying. Basic
is the fact that the body can be harmed but not the spirit, the soul, the
Thetan. The basic true self, the spirit cannot be harmed and it is only
taken upon one's self as such through using the body or whatever beingness
or identity. If the Thetan is to be harmed it is because the spirit/Thetan
postulates that it is so about himself as a spirit. A Thetan can only be
trapped and harmed if he considers he is trapped and harmed and he will
play the darndest games to prove to others and himself that it is so.
Stupidity also plays a big part.
It all started when the first overt was made. Ron mentions the very 1st
and 2nd overt in the State of Man lectures. At the level of Theta and
strictly in the realm of the Theta universe, the first overt, if there
truly ever was such a thing, to harm another, was when a Thetan made
another Thetan guilty of an overt act. The specific action here was one
Thetan blaming another for harming him. The stupidity comes into the
picture when the accused Thetan considers he has harmed another as the
other Thetan does a good job of pretending and demonstrating that he has
been harmed by the guilty Thetan. Not to difficult a performance for a
Thetan even without a body, a beingness. As this game went around, it
probably got better and better and even the accusing Thetan began to
believe, there just might be a way to harm a Thetan without his agreement.
After all, he had to continue to make the guilty party guilty, the ol' I'm
right and you're wrong game. Just more stupidity and game playing. Who
knows, possibly the accusing Thetan had a body or some identity at the time
to really demonstrate being harmed.
With this 1st overt, that of making another guilty of an overt act, one
can now see how powerful and deadly this overt can be. By making the most
powerful guilty and showing that the MOST powerful could be harmed, the
seed was planted that could and would make the most powerful of all in all
universes succumb to being trapped and rendered down to nothing more than
an inconsequential grain of sand on a lonely uninhabited beach somewhere,
anywhere in a far off forgotten corner of the physical universe.
For one to now look back at all of this, one can easily see that the game
of blame is this same insidious disabling,injuring and killing agent of
oneself and others who were once totally immune to any and all harm of any
nature. The beginning of the downfall of Theta and Thetans.
If you have gotten this far, I hope you can see that Level 4 is the key
that opens the door to walking out of the trap and Level 5 is the walking
out. What must be accomplished on Level 4 is 'Freedom from Overwhelm'.
Without this Level 5 is only of minor benefit for you are not yet free
from overwhelm. I also want to point out that doing Level 4 to where one
can no longer see any more charge to run off by TimeBreaking is not a point
of completion without having achieved 'Freedom from Overwhelm'. Without
this 'Freedom', there still remains the seed to succumb.
Once this is done, my experience has been a vast expansion of
understanding and knowledge. Being difficult to accept, it is not all that
surprising. Consequently many will raise every possible arguments against
its being so. The truth itself is quite simple but, as Dennis Stephens
said to me on his last tape before relinquishing his body 'truths are
always simple, complexities are just playing games'. This leads to the
rather startling concept that there are really no such things as accidents.
All occurs within the workings of the Laws of Life which I wrote about in
IVy No 18, already cited.
Feeling guilty
LRH said that to accept responsibility for anything, one had only to
admit openly that he had done that which was created. Once this was done
the incident disappears by virtue of being as-ised. I don't know if this
is necessarily true. It will occur when responsibility has really been
fully taken but just saying so may not be enough in all cases.
Shared responsibilities
There are many situations where shared responsibilities occur and I
have mentioned above a very simple example of this but the scale can be
very much larger in its scope and in the number of people involved.
Consider the complexities of responsibilities in regard to a war, for
example or the destruction of the earth's atmosphere by increasing
pollution. The complexity of this means that it is a game with no simple
solutions to it so that each one involved, voluntarily or involuntarily,
must assess his own degree of responsibility in regard to it. To simplify
the solution a little in regard to one's own measure of responsibility, one
must look at one's own intentions and actions or inactions in regard to the
situation and act or not act accordingly.
Possible lines of action
Here is the outline of a tool for counselling or for running TROM.
The former will have the wording 'Has another forced upon you ...?' The
latter 'Is there a game where you were overwhelmed with ...?'
Questions could be :
1. Accept a responsibility that you did not desire.
2. Prevent you from accepting a responsibility that you desire.
3. Accept as yours, a responsibility that wasn't yours.
4. Be irresponsible.
5. Feel guilty.
Each question to be run on all four flows in order to cover every aspect
of it.
This I used with the client mentioned at the beginning of this article
but found that the use of the four flows on 1 was all that was needed
to complete the case by reason of the cognition which then occurred. Later
I told her that in reality this conclusion was not an end but the beginning
of ever increasing knowledge, understanding and opportunities . She has
already found this happening.
The Editor, Antony Phillips (internet address: [email protected]),
does have an Internet line for TROM and allied topics where opinions
and experiences can be shared. He will readily give you details of it. If,
like myself, you are not into having the necessary computer you can always
get in touch with me via himself or, for matters regarding TROM, to Judith
Methven who has had considerable experience with TROM. I am moderately well
versed in the theory but have had no practical experience since my case
completion occurred on a totally different route, which took very much
longer.
The price to be paid
When one lives to the best of one's ability and having regard for the
Laws of Life, then, as I have mentioned, new knowledge just flows in
and understanding increases. For one at this level, the price is one that
he is quite happy to pay. This price has been expressed in the injunction,
'as you have freely received, so freely give'. I have told my clients that
there is no need for my personal recompense but just pass on to others that
which you have learnt and tell them to do the same. It works! LRH himself
said that ideally scientology should be given freely but then he went on to
find every reason why it couldn't be. That, perhaps, was the beginning of
the failure
of the C. of S.
The way ahead
Whilst I was thinking about the writing of this article it occurred to
me that those who are closely tied up with any 'ism, 'ology, or group
association may find it more difficult to reach a present life time
case completion. This is because too close an association with such
organizations tends to impose limitations of thought and actions. In the
course of time they all are liable to deteriorate to the level of 'the only
way'. Such an association may indeed be very valuable during one's lower
levels in one's development but when they become restrictive, it is time to
leave them. I went from christian to spiritualist to scientologist to the
unnamed freedom that I now enjoy. This freedom I have found to be essential
for me as I can not be restricted by others' set beliefs. Once one puts a
label on any sort of activity, it can tend to cause it to become limiting,
especially if it involves creating an organization. Since the separation
of the many old time scientologists from the C of S many have found or
created new forms of therapy and counseling. To me it is axiomatic that no
one way will be right for everyone but that each of them will meet the
needs of those who are able to gain from what it offers. This growth and
expansion is especially true of the USA as a glimpse through the adverts in
The Free Spirit will show. The only thing here that is not to my taste is
that some of them still offer their knowledge and services only to those
who can afford high prices. I feel that this in itself is highly likely in
the course of time to cause the founders to lose their games.
I agree with this assessment too. In addition, I would suggest that there
may be concepts and truths here and there which are true and worth while
and one should be able to note which those are and those which are not
worth while. There is the situation where one may accept a dogma or a
belief as a truth in the beginning and not be able to note the dogma or
faith until one has progressed beyond the need or the understanding of
either. That would only be possible as one continues to progress in
knowledge and understanding to higher and higher levels of truth. With
that I must say that one must continue incessantly with one's experience
and one's actions to understand those experiences. Need I say this then
tends to be an un-ending progression. This then also supports your
consideration of 'isms', 'ologies' and groups getting to a point where they
then become restrictive and limiting. Most, typically purport to be 'the'
answer and quite often say they are 'the only true answer'. All that
really does is say that there is a top, a limit to what exists and what can
exist, past, present and future. Obviously a very limiting viewpoint and
not the truth.
Remember the effect that this eventually had on LRH. Others have offered
their new-found discoveries for no more than, or just a little over, the
cost of reproducing them. My personal knowledge of them has been Geoffrey
Filbert with his Excalibur Revisited, Dennis Stephens with TROM and
Flemming Funch with his two volumes of essays and his latest
work Transformational Dialogues. There are undoubtedly others but I have no
first hand knowledge of them. It does seem to me that these are the ones
who are on the right and most survival path.
A further warning is that one shouldn't make or imply false claims
or unattainable results. In the current edition of The Auditor at the time
of writing there is a banner headline in red: "Make it to full OT:- do
the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course at Ron's home". This implies that
doing so will make one full OT as defined by LRH. I have never heard of
anyone achieving that as yet and I am sure that we would have, had it
occurred. Irene Mumford (Mitchell) claimed that Dianasis would do this but
just before she left her body she said that she didn't think this could be
attained while still in a physical body.
Let me end by saying quite briefly that if one does not pass on freely
that which one has received, then the source and channel of that knowledge
is very likely to dry up. On the other hand, when one passes on one's
knowledge and experiences freely there is a never ending stream of new
concepts and the understanding of life that accompanies this. This is the
open channel to Spirit, Intuition or whatever you chose to call it but once
you've experienced, you can never doubt its reality and value.
Very true. Especially if one has a new understanding only common to
himself then that understanding and its knowledge will come to an end and
not go any further, it having been passed nowhere and it will not propagate
any further through time and space nor through the non-physical universe.
It has been a while since you last posted here on TROM. I find your posts
enjoyable, worthwhile and thought provoking/stimulating. Where else do you
post?
Paul, Level 5 in progress
_______________________________________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20130205/5276de05/attachment.html>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Trom mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
End of Trom Digest, Vol 103, Issue 12
*************************************
