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HI Ant Thanks for posting these reruns. I really like Homer Smith's point:
> Havingness is the need to have terminals and things to play for and on. > > > >When a game is done the player keeps around tokens. These are hopes the > >game will start again. When that hope is dead the token, the terminal, > >is hidden. And it becomes an automacity - a game going on below the > >level of knowingness. Truthfully, one never stops playing a game once > >started. He plays old games in secret - even from himself - while > >playing or not playing new ones. The only _real_ game one can have is > >in present time. All others are in the past or in the future. Anxiety > >for a game takes one into the past. Sincerely Pete Mclaughlin Sent from my iPad > On Sep 25, 2015, at 9:32 PM, The Resolution of Mind list > <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > From: Ant Phillips <[email protected]> > > Subject: > TROM: Replay B9 > Date: > Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:28:56 +0100 > From: > Antony Phillips <[email protected]> > Organization: > International Viewpoints > To: > [email protected] > > > Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > TROM-L Ä > Msg : 69 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn > > From : Dimitry Ivakhnenko 236/174.10 Sun 02 Apr 95 > 12:27 > To : [email protected] Sun 02 Apr 95 > 21:36 > Subj : RI > > ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > ÄÄÄÄ > Apparently-to: [email protected] > From: Dimitry Ivakhnenko <[email protected]> > Subject: RI > > Hello everyone, > Hi Flemming, > > >>Meanwhile I am learning to apply TROM. I would like to propose a process > >>similar to Timebreaking. It seems more natural to look at the terminal > >>and co-locate it with the similar terminal that pops up. I think that > >>the less significant the process is the better. Imagined objects embrace > >>past, present, future and even more. So maybe this process and > >>co-locating imagined terminals can have its place. I even thought about > >>running imaginary engrams. I remember Hubbard's "lie factories" but it > >>seems to me a much better processing. It's more creative, less > >>significant, and of course is much more pleasant. However I still have > >>doubts about it. Maybe more serious people are right about "confronting, > >>confronting, confronting, your own, your own past". ? ? ? > > > >Nah, it is actually better to take it lightly. Not much to gain from > >agreeing solidly that the past is serious and has to be confronted. Better > >to work from cause in a playful way. Running imagined incidents is just as > >useful as "real" incidents. Because, actually they aren't just imagined. > >What one imagines is usually what needs to be run anyway. > > Yes, timebreaking with the imagined objects and scenes turns out to be > all right. It is not limited to the past. > > I said to my friend Igor, "I have a lack of communication", > and he answered, "So repair it". > > So there came up again the old replenishing of communication (L. Ron > Hubbard, "Dianetics 55!", chapter 13). Why Stephens uses two flows of > RI? I think it is a two-way communication. I noticed that for me > communication is far more important than any dead masses. I came to the > old idea of Hubbard that the essential repair is the repair of > communication. I think that the goal of the game is communication, that > masses are importantant because they are condensed communications, and > so the repair of communication can be more simple and straightforward > process than the repair of importance. What do you think about that? > -- > Dimitry Ivakhnenko > Phone:+7 (044) 224 7323 > E-mail: [email protected] > PO Box 298-9 Kiev 252034 Ukraine > > > > --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 > > Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > TROM-L Ä > Msg : 71 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn > > From : Flemming Funch 236/174.10 Sun 02 Apr 95 > 07:04 > To : [email protected] Mon 03 Apr 95 > 06:14 > Subj : Re: RI > > ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > ÄÄÄÄ > Apparently-to: [email protected] > From: [email protected] (Flemming Funch) > Subject: Re: RI > > At 1:27 PM 4/2/95 +0300, Dimitry Ivakhnenko wrote: > >I said to my friend Igor, "I have a lack of communication", > >and he answered, "So repair it". > > > >So there came up again the old replenishing of communication (L. Ron > >Hubbard, "Dianetics 55!", chapter 13). Why Stephens uses two flows of > >RI? I think it is a two-way communication. I noticed that for me > >communication is far more important than any dead masses. I came to the > >old idea of Hubbard that the essential repair is the repair of > >communication. I think that the goal of the game is communication, that > >masses are importantant because they are condensed communications, and > >so the repair of communication can be more simple and straightforward > >process than the repair of importance. What do you think about that? > > Sure. Everything is communication, and masses are really just accumulated, > undelivered communications. > > But good communication is also intimately intervowed with the ability to > notice or create importances. One need to be clear on what to communicate > and what is communicated, to avoid that unfinished cycles stack up. > > - Flemming > > > o o > / \------------------ Flemming A. Funch ------------------/ \ > / * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole Systems / * \ > / * * \ [email protected] / * * \ > o-------o ------ http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/--------o-------o > > > > --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 > > Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > TROM-L Ä > Msg : 73 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn > > From : Dimitry Ivakhnenko 236/174.10 Mon 03 Apr 95 > 11:07 > To : [email protected] Wed 05 Apr 95 > 07:51 > Subj : Re: RI > > ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > ÄÄÄÄ > Apparently-to: [email protected] > From: Dimitry Ivakhnenko <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: RI > > Flemming Funch wrote: > > >Sure. Everything is communication, and masses are really just accummulated, > >undelivered communications. > > > >But good communication is also intimately intervowed with the ability to > >notice or create importances. One need to be clear on what to communicate > >and what is communicated, to avoid that unfinished cycles stack up. > > Homer Wilson Smith wrote: > > > Masses are the end point TERMINALS of a two way communication line, > >they are the reason FOR communication, and the significance behind most > >two way communications. > > L. Ron Hubbard (Dianetics 55!, Copyright (C) 1954) wrote: > > >The preclear must be kept at his job. His mocking up of communications > >must be kept in a simplicity and out of deep significances, and if his > >attention seems to fixate upon flows and he begins to "wrestle with > >mass", the auditor should get him back into mocking up communications > >as fast as possible. > > > >What degree of originality is required of the preclear mocking uo any > >of those originated communications, answers or acknowledgments? The > >answer to this is "none." No variety is necessary whatsoever. Simply > >the idea of communication, with some sort of a specific idea being > >communicated, is all that is necessary. > > >It has not been found necessary to remedy havingness on the preclear if > >one is actually remedying the scarcity of communication. > > >Havingness is the need to have terminals and things to play for and on. > > > >When a game is done the player keeps around tokens. These are hopes the > >game will start again. When that hope is dead the token, the terminal, > >is hidden. And it becomes an automacity - a game going on below the > >level of knowingness. Truthfully, one never stops playing a game once > >started. He plays old games in secret - even from himself - while > >playing or not playing new ones. The only _real_ game one can have is > >in present time. All others are in the past or in the future. Anxiety > >for a game takes one into the past. > > > >The command is, "Invent a game," and when the preclear has, again, > >"Invent a game." Then: "Mock up somebody else inventing a game." > > > So that's how I understand it in the terms of communication and play: > > Being enters the game to have communication (to play). > He assigns the importance to all flows of communicaton. > He assigns the importance to communication terminals. > He uses importances as the "reasons for" communication. > He assigns importance to the games. > Wrong cycles of communication (game failures) stuck up as > important masses. > He begins to communicate (play) obsessively with the past. > His ability for actual communication (play) lessens. > Exercises (processes) remove old important masses - > important communication and terminals (games). > He lacks important communication and terminals because of his > disability for actual communication (play). > RI repairs this lack by creating new important masses on all flows and > giving him the confidence that he can do it. > > What I suppose is that since the consideration of importance is > secondary to the communication and game, the essential repair is the > repair of terminals and flows of communication, repair of the ability to > create terminals and flows of communication (repair of games and the > ability to create games). Importance is secondary. @:) > -- > Dimitry Ivakhnenko > Phone:+7 (044) 224 7323 > E-mail: [email protected] > PO Box 298-9 Kiev 252034 Ukraine > > > > --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 > > Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > TROM-L Ä > Msg : 74 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn > > From : Lenny or Jevan Gray 236/174.10 Tue 04 Apr 95 > 13:31 > To : [email protected] Wed 05 Apr 95 > 07:51 > Subj : Re: RI > > ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > ÄÄÄÄ > Apparently-to: [email protected] > From: Lenny or Jevan Gray <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: RI > > > On Mon, 3 Apr 1995, Dimitry Ivakhnenko wrote: > > ... > > L. Ron Hubbard (Dianetics 55!, Copyright (C) 1954) wrote: > > > ... > > >When a game is done the player keeps around tokens. > > Sometimes. Not always. > > > > These are hopes the > > >game will start again. When that hope is dead the token, the terminal, > > >is hidden. And it becomes an automacity - a game going on below the > > >level of knowingness. Truthfully, one never stops playing a game once > > >started. > > "Truthfully", but incorrectly. > > > > He plays old games in secret - even from himself - while > > >playing or not playing new ones. The only _real_ game one can have is > > >in present time. > > True. However, in _real_ "present time" there _are_ no games. The game > is _always_ about the future, and the knowledge of whether it was or wasn't > a "game" is from the "memory" of whether one was started. Spontaneity, > (aka: "Creativity"), the only thing to _actually_ exist in purely "present > time", cares about _neither_ past nor future. > > > > All others are in the past or in the future. Anxiety > > >for a game takes one into the past. > > Careful analysis of the word "anxiety" points to precisely the connection > of past to future _by_ "a game" as referenced in this statement. Anxiety > is _literally_ about the future. _Only_ the time-duration of the "game" > could possibly "take one into the past". > > > ... > > > > What I suppose is that since the consideration of importance is > > secondary to the communication and game, the essential repair is the > > repair of terminals and flows of communication, repair of the ability to > > create terminals and flows of communication (repair of games and the > > ability to create games). Importance is secondary. @:) > > Possibly, the most useful point is that it's _separate_. > > - Lenny - > > --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 > > Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > TROM-L Ä > Msg : 75 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn > > From : Flemming Funch 236/174.10 Tue 04 Apr 95 > 19:31 > To : [email protected] Thu 06 Apr 95 > 05:59 > Subj : Re: Level 2/3 > > ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > ÄÄÄÄ > Apparently-to: [email protected] > From: [email protected] (Flemming Funch) > Subject: Re: Level 2/3 > > At 6:36 PM 4/3/95 +0200, Andreas Mittermayr wrote: > >could you please tell me what commands you gave yourselve on level 2/3 to get > >objects/scenes to timebreak ? > > I didn't use commands at all. Just looked at objects and scenes. For me, if > I had to involve verbal commands in it I couldn't do it so well. > > - Flemming > > > o o > / \------------------ Flemming A. Funch ------------------/ \ > / * \ World Transformation/New Civilization/Whole Systems / * \ > / * * \ [email protected] / * * \ > o-------o ------ http://www.protree.com/worldtrans/--------o-------o > > > > --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 > > Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > TROM-L Ä > Msg : 77 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn > > From : ASC Missions Group 236/174.10 Thu 06 Apr 95 > 10:40 > To : Dimitry Ivakhnenko <[email protected]> Fri 07 Apr 95 > 07:38 > Subj : Re: Perfect Time > > ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > ÄÄÄÄ > Apparently-to: [email protected] > From: ASC Missions Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Perfect Time > > On Thu, 6 Apr 1995, Dimitry Ivakhnenko wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am interested in the goals time usage since I am translating TROM in > > Russian. As I understand "To be known" and "To know" are finished goals. > > What about "To become known" and "To learn" ? I mean, must the goals in > > packages be finished? What is preferable? > > As you know, I am not a TROMmer. But I do invest a lot into the > questions used in any procedure. > > I find that, Yes, goals must be worded as "done deeds". > > This is most easily done by phrasing them in the future perfect tense > after conceptualizing them under the definition: > > Goal: the event-instant that signals the end > of a game > or activity sequence. > > The objective of a question is to stimulate a conceptualization. The > future perfect tense presents the concept as a fixed target that can be > visualized from its relevant time period, and thus seen clearly and > examined closely. > > The time-variable question leaves the client sliding through a time > duration, which allows the concept to remain a moving target, and thus > more difficult to "apprehend" and scrutinize. > > Remember, > > "There is beingness, but man believes there is only becomingness." > > Clearing is most successful when addressed to actualities rather than > assumptions. So, questions should ask for beingness (stable image) > rather than becomingness (moving target). > > Deal with time as a label upon an image (Space/location too, is another > label). The concept, then, is either stable by reason of a definitive > label, or fluid because it contains a variable. > > > > > Some questions and commentary: > > "To be known" > > When? Varible time. Becomingness. > > "To have been known" > > Better, but implies that IT happened but is now completed and terminated. > > "To have become known" > > After the fact of accomplishment, > the done deed that continues thenceforth. Beingness. > > > "To know" } > "To have known" } comments same as previous set > "To have become knowledgeable" } > > > And so on, > > Improving this: To this: > ------------------- ------------------------ > "To become known" "To have become known" > > "To learn" "To have learned" > > > This may take a small bit of adjusting, to get the feel and see the > difference. > > Say to yourself, "I want to know." > > Do you feel a frustration about that you don't know? > Doesn't the statement reaffirm that you don't know? > And doesn't that imply that you lack something? > > Now say to yourself, "I want to have known." > > Is this different? > Doesn't this one "move" you into the future, the time-place relevant to > the objective? > Doen't it imply that you can and will have acheived this? > Doesn't it put you into the frame of mind of accomplishment? > Doesn't that validate your capacity to be there, to have done it? > > > Watch out for the objection of, "Yes, but that's not my/the original > wording". > > Most of us don't say exactly what we mean, every time. Most of the time, > in fact, we just loosely approximate the actual concept. > > Thus it is not an invalidation to consider the clarification of the > target concept by contemplating a more accurate wording of what it really > is. > > After all, clearing is about becoming more at cause over one's mind, is > it not? > > That is not a destination, it is a process. > > And there's no time like the present. > > -0- > > Reference: _Future_Perfect_ -Stanley M. Davis, ISBN 0-201-51793-0 > > Speaker for Acceptance <[email protected]> Acceptance Services Center > Acceptance is appreciation without significance. | (415) 964-3436 > Appreciation is willingness to experience as-is. --8-- PO Box 390696 > Significance is interpretation, or added-on meaning. | Mtn Vw CA 94039 > > > --- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303 > > > > > -- > Ant Antony A Phillips > [email protected] > tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69 > Box 78 > DK - 2800 Lyngby > Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page: > http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/ > Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy lists [end of > repeat/replay] > -- [Present time signature:] -- > > Antony Phillips. > www.antology.info > Danish interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmXZ4X_uYRo > English interview Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdgqweh-4WI > English interview Part 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8sGp6AwuK4 > English biography http://scientolipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Antony_Phillips > [email protected] > (+45) 45 88 88 69 > Admin to SelfClearing2004, SuperScio, Cosmic History mailing lists > Jernbanevej 3f 4th > DK 2800 Lyngby > Skype (by appointment only) > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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