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Good Tromming, Ant-Admin
The following was previously sent Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:54:59 +0200
Subject:
TROM Replay B17
Date:
Fri, 10 Apr 1998 09:11:20 +0200
From:
Antony Phillips <i...@post8.tele.dk>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
tro...@newciv.org
Good Easter to all Trommers, Ant
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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Msg : 165 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : "Dustin W. Carr" 236/174.10 Mon 10 Jul 95
14:24
To : trom-l <tro...@netcom.com> Tue 11 Jul 95
07:20
Subj : level 5 help
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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: "Dustin W. Carr" <dc...@newton.ruph.cornell.edu>
Subject: level 5 help
This is post from Marc Wirth from early this year. Anybody that ever
plans to do level 5 should read it. It contains the transcript of the
tape Stephens sent to Judith Methven.
This should clear alot of things up, it did for me, as I had no idea how
to do level 5 until I read this.
Dustin
Seems this didn't get through the first time...
This is a partial transcript of a tape Dennis Stephens recorded
as demonstration, how Level 5 ist done. There ist more, but I haven't
typed it in yet. This here is the most important part. In the rest of
the tape he again admonishes everybody to stick to his instructions,
especially to do RI generously. He also warns to not leave anything
before it's not producing change anymore, specifically he says that you
can't overrun any of the levels of the postulate failure cycle chart.
You simply get bored if you overrun them.
Another point he makes is that it's no loss of face to drop
back a Level, you could always drop back to Level 4, run it till no
more change and then go back to Level 5. This is something I can back
up from my own experience as something that can bring enormous gains.
I got the tape from Judith Methven. She wrote to Dennis to get
a demonstration of how to run Level 5. I owe her a big, big Thankyou
for the tape. I don't know if Dennis wanted this to be made public or
not, and to be honest I don't care much about that. But I think it's of
general interest. Perhaps it should even be included into TROM itself.
Best wishes,
Marc
--------
[The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure
cycle chart in front of you.]
I will go through the chart, as if I'm the subject and I'm running
Level 5. And Im starting at Level 1A. I'm starting at Level 1A and my
goal-package I'm using is the basic to know-goal package. I'm starting
now at Level 1A. Before I start as given in the manual I'd timebreak
all the day's activities and also I would make sure that Levels 1, 2, 3
and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't attempt Level 5 until
those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've
timebreaken the day's activities.
OK, here we go. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little
bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you
can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can
use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You're not
limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to
work. So it doesn't have to be present time physical universe space it
can be past physical universe time space. You just need some space
there to work.
So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put
up the postulate, the Other's postulate "must be known". The postulate
is "must be known" and that is in the class of not-self. Now, it
doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people would prefer to
put the postulate into a mass. But there is no reason why you should
put it into a mass, you can put it into empty space if you want. But
most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a
created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical
universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it.
The important thing is that it's a "must be known" postulate and it's
in the class of not-self. That is important. You must be certain that
it's in the other's, the class of other's to which I will refer for
more precision as the class of not-self. So you put up that postulate
"must be known" in the class of not-self. You yourself then create the
postulate "must know". That postulate is in the class of self, that's
you, right were you are. You hold the postulate "must know". So you've
got "must be known" over that way as origin. Receipt where you are, you
with the postulate "must know". And if you go over the column I on the
chart you see that the level here is "forced to know". And it's you
being forced to know. Get that? Doesn't matter what it is, you don't
have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you
would put up "must be known" over that way in the class of not-self,
and then get yourself there.
Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself
right where you are, right were you are with the "must know" postulate.
There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over
that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the
"must know" postulate, you understand that? Because you are right were
you are creating a "must know" postulate. Then you simply timebreak out
anything that shows up, any sensations that show up, your whole
situations of cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you timebreak out
anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you timebreak it.
Timebreak it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates
back up again.
You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the
past, you timebreak those back out, have a good look at them; timebreak
them out of existence and put the postulates back up again. And you
keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with
no more change occuring and you can quite happily put up the postulate
"must be known" in the class of not self over that way while you're
sitting there with "must know". And you got the idea that you're being
forced to know. That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all
quitened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get
bored with that level. You've done all you can with that level, it's
now time to move on. So we now move from Level 1A to level 1B.
Now that is signified by you changing your posulate from "must
know" to "mustn't know". You're sill at receipt point, but you're
changing your posulate from "must know" to "mustn't know". The
postulate "must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self.
But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have the
opposition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "must be
known" in the class of not-self and "mustn't know" in the class of self
and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation. So, you
just now hold that. Just hold that situation and timebreak out
everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there.
And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've
timebroken out everything you quite happily have that situation there
where you have "must be known" over there in the class of not-self and
"mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation.
And there's nothing else, it's all quitened down. There's nothing else
happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on.
So you now move on from 1B to 2A.
Now this involves a definite change, you're going from origin
now to receipt. That's a bigger change that happens there between 1B
and 2A. When we go from 1B to 2A you start of by still feeling yourself
at receipt point. You start of by saying, Well, I'm in "mustn't know",
I'm in "mustn't know" but now I'm starting to originate. You start to
originate in "mustn't know" and drive your postulate "mustn't know"
across to the other person, to the "must be known" there. In other
words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the
receipt, at level 2A you're the originator of "mustn't know" and you
drive him into the receipt of "must be known". In other words, you're
beginning to get at him. So, you're beginning to get at the opponent.
So it's you with "mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of
"must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now
at the receipt point.
But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary
timebreaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up
until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole level 2A. Then you
would go to level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the
opponent. You still stay in your "mustn't know" postulate, you're
originating your "mustn't know" postulate at level 2b and now you drive
him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the
postulate, you drive him from "must be known" into "mustn't be known".
In other words, you make him comply with your postulate. So he's driven
from "must be known" he helt at level 2A, he now goes to "mustn't be
known" at level 2b. And Level 2B is you yourself with "mustn't know" at
the origin and the opponent with "mustn't be known" at receipt point
there.
So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we.
We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary
postulates at level 1a with "must be known" and "must know". We've gone
through two game cycles and now we've come back to complementary
postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed. We are
now at 2B. I pause here because of my bad eyesight. I'm struggling to
read this off the chart with my bad eyesight. At 2B we have "mustn't
know" - "mustn't be know" and we are back with complementary postulates
again. But now you are at the origin point and the "mustn't be known"
is at the receipt point.
But again we've achieved complementary postulates. And the level here
now, it's not a game level, this is the overt of preventing from being
known - "mustn't know". Now I really don't have to go any further,
because that is a complete little cycle I ran doing 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B.
This is a complete little cycle, these four. In fact it's a quarter of
the whole set. And if you can follow that quarter, than the other
quarters, the rest of the postulate failure cycle chart, this three
more quarters, they all follow the same pattern as that first quarter.
So if you follow what I've just given you, you got it.
Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're
dealing purely with postulates. You're not dealing with effects here on
the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all your putting up,
it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up
sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up
people, you're not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're
simply mocking up postulates. What we're working with are just
postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That's
all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with
anything else, we timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only
work with postulates at level 5.
It's an incredible thing to work with. At first ist seems very
strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with
postulates. But after one get's used to it, when you get into Level 5
you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with
anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results
working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You
simply timebreak out everything else that shows up. Any incidents that
show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever will show up. You
simply timebreak them out. So at level 5 you're working purely with
postulates. Once you grasp that, you got it. You got it. You can work
then on level 5 and realize what you're doing.
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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Msg : 168 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : "Dustin W. Carr" 236/174.10 Tue 11 Jul 95
20:00
To : trom-l <tro...@netcom.com> Wed 12 Jul 95
07:36
Subj : consciousness-breaking
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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: "Dustin W. Carr" <dc...@newton.ruph.cornell.edu>
Subject: consciousness-breaking
I just had a few remarks regarding Dimi's postsript. I have thought
about this other levels of consciousness - breaking, as well as other
universe-breaking. I have only loosely approached these myself, since I
only get passing glimpses of such things as other universes and other
layers of consciousness. I would be curious to know if someone else has
pusued these processes.
I have envisioned myself reaching a point with TROM where it would be
necessary to develop such processes. Such processes might work well in
the higher densities. Any thoughts?
Dustin
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
Ä TROM (2:235/159.10) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
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Msg : 171 of 289 Rcv Pvt K/s Scn
From : Bill Maier 236/174.10 Wed 12 Jul 95
12:29
To : tro...@netcom.com Thu 13 Jul 95
06:44
Subj : Progress report
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Apparently-to: a...@jacome.ping.dk
From: ci...@ix.netcom.com (Bill Maier )
Subject: Progress report
I have nearly finished Level 3. I know this because, although I am
still running level 3, I'm beginning to spot the overwhelms in each
incident I timebreak. I am beginning to see the _postulates_ that have
held this mind together, rather than just the mass itself.
Over the last couple of evenings I've run some pretty heavy incidents,
heavy with overwhelm. After tonight's session I was fully exterior,
walking my body around the house from behind it. I never dreamed I
would reach such a state when I first started TROM. And there's still
two levels to go!
Bill
--- GIGO+ sn 299 at jacome vsn 0.99.950303
--
Ant Antony A Phillips
i...@post8.tele.dk
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Publisher, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy lists
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