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Today's Topics:
1. RE Out-Create (The Resolution of Mind list)
2. Suffering on Level 2 for 100 hours (The Resolution of Mind list)
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 12:55:08 -0400
From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TROM1] RE Out-Create
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Is this what you mean by "Out-Create"?
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change
something build a new model (creation) that makes the existing model
obsolete" Bucky Fuller is attributed with saying that.
For example one could imagine out-creating the existing food
economy/industry with a system of permaculture and plentiful food
forests -
back to an earthly paradise without profit or exploitation
conditions....
more simple and uncomplicated.
I would want to get into the viewpoint of those who oppose, at
least....
all limiting non-life postulates were once less limiting life-oriented
postulates (I could be wrong on that). I see it would take great
patience
and compassion.
colleen
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 08:53:52 +0700
From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: [TROM1] Suffering on Level 2 for 100 hours
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear TROMmers,
Short version:
This email will contain my experience with running TROM for
approximately
100 hours on level 2.
I did not have any big gains, no ability returned, but had an awful
lot
of
yawning an suffering.
The only ability is that I now remember a bunch of previous lives
(mostly
thanks to scientology auditing)
Background and Short History:
I was in the church for a about two years, 20 years ago , but it was
just
dianetics auditing.
Being an experimenter type, I was quickly declared and thrown out as a
suppressive person.
11 years ago I found TROM, the theory was fascinating. It is simple
and
intuitive, so I
started on level 2. Soon I realized I need an e-meter to really be
able
to
tell if there is a change,
so I bought one, and did some sessions, had a big win, but then it was
not
working, so I give up after maybe 10-20 hours.
2 years ago I visited an ex scientology auditor, and started on the
bridge,
I did the TR's and objectives,
ARC straightwire, Grade 0 and Grade 1 with him (could not continue,
moved
to another city) and also did 50 hours of
TROM with him on level 2. After that I have decided I will do 50
hours of
TROM this year.
So I will tell you my different experiences with TROM in the following
sections.
First Experiments
After reading the book I rushed to practice. Of course being inside
scientology I understood level 2 as a
method to run charged or heavy or uncomfortable events. Well I did not
feel
much change. Sometimes
I felt nervous, but could not decide weather there was change while
running
the event or not.
After I gave up for a little bit -because I could not assess change- I
realized I need an e-meter,
because that will measure change. So I bought one, and restarted
enthusiastically, found a few charged events
had a few wins, it was great. But soon I run out of events. The meter
did
not move any more.
It was not a floating needle as Dennis described, it was just sluggish
mostly, but nothing
to run anymore ... so as I mentioned before, it did not work as
advertised.
I gave up for the
next 10 years.
Scientology auditing
I had some free time in my life, so I had the idea, to go try
scientology
auditing in the freezone.
I did the TR's and objectives, ARC straightwire, Grade 0 and Grade 1.
Well
maybe I am in terrible
case maybe not. According to my auditor I am considered an average
case,
with not much trauma
in my life. So level 2 should have worked for me according to Dennis,
but
it did not!
And I tell you while it was most probably later started to work (my
idea
and Dennis also speaks about this)
Every person wanting to go up the scientology bridge have to do TR's
and
objectives.
The objectives part contains processes called CCH and there are 10 of
them.
One of them
called the Book and Bottle. Well if you do not know what it is, I give
you
an idea here,
at least this is how my auditor run it on me. You walk to a bottle on
one
side of the room
tell it's weight, color, then you are requested to walk to a book on
the
other side of the
room and tell it's color and weight. I started around 8 a.m. and I
had to
do it until
around 18 o'clock. You just cannot imagine how hard is to survive that
for
10 hours.
And the rest of the CCH is not easier by any means. I believe the CCH
processes broke my case,
because very soon after them I tried TROM again, as you can see in the
next
section, but
this time it worked, well if you call the worst repeated experience of
your
life working :-)
TROM with an auditor
I decided to do TROM with an auditor because I was unable to do it
alone,
and after 10 years of struggling, I came
to the conclusion that I need help with this, whatever Dennis Stephens
says. Also I did not have that much
experience with auditing in general, the rigorous process, and the
willpower it needed.
We always did 1 hour sessions. After 1 hour I was so tired, that I
had to
go home to sleep.
So that 50 hours of auditing took a long time to complete (2 months
almost
every day)
(of course we did try longer sessions like 90 minutes, but the few
times we
did, made me so tired, that I was totally exhausted)
I took events from my current life, pick an item from them (like a
chair, a
friend) and compared them with objects in present time.
The effect? From a 60 minutes session, I was yawning at least 50
minutes.
By that I mean that
my mouth was open for 50 minutes and closed for 10 minutes. So one
yawn
usually takes a minute.
Five minutes after starting, my nose started to run, so one hour
usually
resulted in 5 wet handkerchiefs.
I did not run any important or charged event from my life. Just the
normal,
not charged ones.
After about 45 hours the yawning started to decrease on the events.
Then
one day my auditor asked me if I felt
anything different, (I did not), because the needle characteristic on
the
e-meter changed, he said.
Well next day I found out, what he meant. The yawning run out, and I
go
so
angry I could trash the place, and
beat up my auditor. Then quickly I reached boredom. We did this a few
times, It all happened within one hour:
10-15 minutes yawning, a little anger, boredom, and then nothing, just
did
TROM until the 1 hour finished.
So I decided that maybe from here, I can do it alone.
TROM alone
I started to do level 2 on charged events, alone, with my e-meter, 1
hour
sessions.
The yawning returned to span 90% of the time again.
But after about 15 hours I run out of events to process. Whatever I
picked
up, just was boring, and did not
have any effect on the e-meter. Did I reach the end of level 2? I was
hoping, but I still could not place, the then
next to the now. I mean sometimes yes, but it took too much effort,
and
only could do it after I run out the charge,
and even then it was not perfect. So I definitely did not finish
level 2,
but could not find anything that would produce
change (noticeable by myself on myself, or on the e-meter). WTF should
I do
now? So I went to amazon, because
by this time, the 6 TROM books were available, and I bought them all,
and
read them. Nothing!
What the hell should Ii run in the session then?
Dream TROM
In desperation, I came up with the idea to run my dreams on level 2.
The
idea was so stupid, that I went to my auditor
to ask his advice, and to my astonishment, he said, that I should go
ahead
and do it, because they contain many
unconscious events, probably even events from past lives.
So I did it. Every morning I wrote down my dreams (usually only one I
can
remember) and during the day I run it on
level 2. Boy was I in trouble! For the next 20 hours I had to reduce
my
session time to 30 minutes.
It was awful, my jaw hurt from the yawning, an I was so tired, that
many
times after 30 minutes of auditing I just
lay down in my bed, and fall asleep immediately. I did not matter, if
I
just woke up from a whole night of sleep,
after I did a session, I had to go back to sleep again. It took
almost 2
months to do that 20 hours of auditing,
which is ridiculous, and it hurt me a lot. And how it worked is even
worse.
I had a dream, I picked a chair
from it and run it for 30 minutes, next day I picked the table that
was
next to the chair in the same dream, that also
give me 30 minutes yawning. Finishing level 2 seemed impossible.
Nothing last forever, and one day my dream run out (no yawning, no
e-meter
needle movement) in 15 minutes,
and whatever other objects or persons I took from the same dream, the
yawning did not return.
Next day the same happened. WTF should I do now? Luckily the same day
I
was
dreaming a very strange dream.
I was in the second word war running from the Germans, captured, and
everything looked like in those old war movies.
I run it with TROM, it run out, and then -thinking about past lives- I
asked myself did I have an earlier similar event?
So I had a vague memory of being beaten, I run it, and it got
cleaner, I
was beaten in ancient Egypt. I run this
incident for 2x30 minutes until no change (no yawning, and no emeter
movement)
Past life TROM
I travelled to my auditor, and begged him to help me find past lives,
and
even though I just got until grade 1, I managed
to push him to run some new era dianetics on me. He told me, he will
try to
run it, it will either work, and then we
continue or not run at all, then he can not help me but return to
grade
1.
We started out with my Egyptian incident,
and run with scientology auditing, about 5 past life incidents come
up in
about 6 hours of auditing. If you know how New Era Dianetics
works, you know, that it will not erase incidents, just the oldest
one.
So
you see some incident, and the moment you
can remember an earlier incident, you are requested to move to the
earlier
one, leaving the original unhandled (as I understand it)
So I went back home, and took all those unfinished incidents, and run
TROM
on them. One incident usually run for 60-90 minutes!
By this time I could increase my session time back to 60 minutes. So
when I
finished all the incidents I found with my auditor
I was back to square one: I had nothing to audit. And I can tell you
this
with certainty: It is not possible to recall past lives
with TROM, not at the beginning at least. The reason it worked with
the
scientology auditor was that I closed my eyes the
whole time, so I tried the same during TROM sessions: I did not
compare
anything, I did not open my eyes, I just went
through the event a few times (with a lot of yawning of course) and
after
maybe 15-30 minutes I could open my eyes,
and start to do TROM on those objects/persons (with more yawning)
which
by
that time I could clearly recall.
I just cannot access past lives with my eyes open, most of the time I
just
have a feeling, or very faint part of a picture
and when I go over and over again, more details come up, maybe later
....
My Conclusions
- TROM is not a mature technology. It was invented by one man, and as
I
understand it very few people provided feedback.
Therefore it worked for one man, who had very little case to begin
with,
so it is rather untested, and most certainly will not work for
everybody.
- It is impossible to understand TROM without really understanding
scientology. Dennis does not stress this, but
the guy lived his entire life inside or around scientology. It was
like
breathing to him, he did the original Saint Hill Special
Briefing Course, but for an outsider?
- No timeframe, no statistics. This is the worst in my view. My
scientology
auditor tells me, that making a clear takes
usually 450 hours of auditing. Nowhere in TROM did I see the number
of
hours. When I started out, I was thinking, that
level 2 will take 10-20 hours to complete. Now I have about 50
hours of
dianetics, 200 hours of scientology auditing
and 100 hours of TROM and hey I just found a few past lives, of
which I
am sure there are thousands. THOUSANDS.
How much time do you think it will take to run out with TROM like
1000
lifetimes, when running one life took me
350 hours? Maybe much less. I am just wenting my anger...
- My auditor told me that an OT VIII needs around 2500 hours of
auditing
from zero to OT VIII.
OT VII alone takes 1500 hours, so the rest of the bridge takes about
1000
hours.
Based on that number, now I see that just to do 1000 hours requires
extreme dedication. If I can do 1 hour every day,
which is of course impossible, so lets just go with 300 hours a
year.
Let's say I need 600 more hours of level 2, and maybe
600 level 3. That would be 4 YEARS of very hard, very dedicated
work.
Am
I up for that? Well I am not sure.
My 2 cents, which I would add to TROM based on my experience
So OT VIII takes 2500 hours, deduct 1500 for OT VII, because Dennis
does
not believes in Body Thetans/Entities which OT VII
is all about, that would leave us 1000 hours of auditing. Dennis says
by
completing level 3 you are above OT VIII.
You did not just think that TROM is so much more effective than
scientology
auditing, and therefore needs less time?
According to my experience, they are on pair, judging by the effects
(e.g.
yawning) they have on me. So to be above OT VIII
with a permanent floating needle, well let's just say that will take
500
extra hours of auditing. So 1000 + 500 = 1500 hours.
Well that's just a total guesswork, but what matters to me, is that it
gives me rough estimates of the magnitudes involved:
- You did 10 hours on level 2,3 and declared yourself finished, well
haha,
I think this is self delusion.
- You did 100 hours on level 2,3 and declared yourself finished, go
visit
an auditor, and check your permanent floating needle
I can almost guarantee you, you will even fail the clear certainty
test.
100 hours is nothing. Even a clear takes 450 hours.
- You did several hundreds of hours on level 2,3 Please, tell me about
your
experience.
- How many past lives did you handle with level 2,3? You did not
seriously
believe that by running this life, you erased
your bank? This life is very pleasant and comfortable for most
people
today. But you lived 1000 of lives before.
Let's say you run x charge of this life, what about the other 1000x?
And
we did not even go into actual gpm's and the like.
- There is only so much charge you can erase in this life, it is not
even
0.1 percent of the charge on your whole time track.
Did you run that out? Where does Dennis mentions this? Well if you
can
read between the lines, or read scientology stuff...
It takes in my estimates at least 1500 hours to finish level 2 and 3,
to be
above OT VIII, with a permanent floating needle.
So in my opinion, if you want to do TROM:
-Go to an auditor and at least finish TR's and objectives, and ARC
staightwire. (and yes I could easily run RI and level 2 before I did)
-Buy an e-meter, without that you are blind (yawning was a good
indication
in the last 100 hours, but it just gives me confidence)
-Prepare for years of suffering every day
-Stack up on willpower. Level 2 is horrible. Could you hurt yourself
for
years, every single day?
-I am not even sure you can do this alone, I mean how an ordinary man
have
such kind of willpower?
That's the whole reason scientology works with the auditor preclear
model.
Because the auditor's and yours combined
analytical power is greater than your reactive mind's power.
-Stack up on higher level scientology books (1950-1965), I do not
think
the
TROM books are enough, to understand all this.
I mean Dennis just mentions past lifes in passing, but if you read
early
scientology stuff, you will see that
most charge is not on the current life
Whining
Currently my total auditing time is 350 hours, so maybe from tomorrow
I
will run out 1 whole past life every day, and in 3
years I will finish. Maybe tomorrow, I will blow all my charges, and
will
get that floating needle. I will tell you about it then.
You see the problem is that when I set a goal, an I give it up, then I
have
lost a game with my reactive mind, therefore getting
down in the downward spiral. And I decided to reach level 3 almost 11
years
ago, and I am nowhere near,
and most probably I will give up, because Dennis Stephens could not
write a
fucking number (hours) in his books.
Well it was easy for him, he had an easy case to run, but me mere
mortal?
What about me?
If I open the TROM book I could realistically make a decision to
start,
if
he would just wirte 1000 hours for level 2.
Because in that case I would not have set my goal for sure, knowing
that I
do not have the kind of will necessary for this.
Summary
In my opinion TROM is for people like Dennis: OT's from the 1950's and
1960's or OT VIII's of today.
They have the background knowledge necessary, a reactive mind cleared
and
blasted to pieces by hundreds of hours of auditing
and the increased determination coming with that kind of case. For
anybody
else it is like a minefield,
of which 95% percent of the people doesn't even realize it is a
minefield,
because they give up sooner than realizing it
or declare themselves finished before even stepping on it.
Yes everybody can do it - I have to agree - but how many people have
that
kind of willpower out of 100?
The Future
Life takes us away from our goals, have to manage a thousand things.
Have
to work, care with the family, sports, hobbies, etc.
I am not the kind of guy, who reads about TROM, runs it for an hour
and
then post it on facebook or an email list,
and then looks for something else. I like to do things thoroughly.
Will I give up? Most probably I will at some point. Why should I
continue?
To yawn for 1000 hours more for 3-4 years?
Maybe I cannot spend 1 hour every day, so maybe it would take 10
years of
yawning.
Yeah, that?s a great gain, yawn every day for 3 years is just such a
great
experience.
Anyway I run out of my frustration for this year :-)
Would be very happy to get some feedback from you guys.
It would make me even happier if you would tell me, how much time did
you
invest in each level?
and how many of you did actually check if they had the kind of
floating
needle Dennis describes?
Kind Regards from some idiot who started TROM a very long time ago and
got
nowhere with it.... yet
PS:
I wrote this email in October 2015 when my frustration reached it's
peek,
and then put it away to think about it.
Now I re-read it, and my opinion did not change much.
Maybe it's my case? Maybe I am so terribly aberrated that it works
easily
for everybody except me?
It is of course another possibility, the one I don't believe in right
now.
I just cannot accept the fact that some of you achieved level 2 and 3
in
20-50 hours.
TROM works of course, as advertised, judging from my 100 hours of
yawning.
I'm just saying that it's is a totally immature and untested technic.
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End of TROM Digest, Vol 137, Issue 15
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