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Hi David It seems to be a basic truth that violence begets violence, as Dennis points out vengence is a compulsive response to being attacked and it takes an act of will to stop my compulsion to take vengence and replace it with a kindness toward my attacker.
Sincerely Pete McLaughlin Sent from my iPad > On Mar 20, 2016, at 8:36 AM, The Resolution of Mind list > <[email protected]> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Pete, > > In your reply to Alessandro on counter postulates: > > > > Counter postulates and the correct use of them was invented by Jesus: > > Praying for your enemy, blessing him and doing good for your enemy is > positing a counter postulate. Return good for evil. > > It stops the games condition. It stops the O/W sequence. > > That is also the main difference between Christianity and Islam. > > Jesus said Love your enemies and the Quran says,.... kill all infidels. > > (I am aware that there are lots of arguments that that is not what is meant > and taken out of context, etc. and it is not my purpose here to argue one > way or another. The problem with Islam is that it is at least certainly > evidently very prone to extremism and tends not to be peace promoting > religion. This is not an opinion. You just have to look at the social > conditions and livability of middle east Muslim countries Syria, Iran Libya, > Iraq etc. compared to originally Christian based countries. > > Where are people fleeing from and where are they seeking refuge? Which > countries are they doing everything possible, to try and get int? . > > They are trying to break in, sneak in, begging to get into countries that are > Christian based countries. How many people are fighting to immigrate to > Syria, Iran, Iraq, Libya and even other Muslim countries ? > > > That is because Islam has made their countries unlivable and Christianity has > made the countries of Christians the most livable and successful countries in > the world. That is mainly because of Jesus' teaching to counter postulate > evil with love, prayer, blessings and good will. > > I recently met a 27 yr old, very intelligent, sensible, sane, university > educated Muslim woman from Afganistan, who told me it was a big mistake for > Canada to allow all these Muslims immigrants and refugees to come in here. > She said that you just wait and see,..... in 50 yrs they will make Canada > like the country they came from from. I say she was being way to generous on > time. It will likely happen much sooner. > > > > So it is Jesus' operating data to end game conditions, O/M sequences, and > handle evil with a counter postulate to "save the world". > > That is all it takes to save the world, is to respond to evil with love, > prayer, blessings and good will. > > Because Jesus' tech is evidently not working well enough, (I say; because it > is incomplete) I would add that it also takes good spiritual healing > technology to really it get done. The tech is the completion of Jesus's > teachings. The root problem is the bank. > > That is why I say that the tech is actually the second coming of Jesus, but > it was hijacked, corrupted, perverted,defiled, bastardized and used for very > selfish purposes by LRH. > > That is my hypothesis. > > > > > I cut and pasted a section > from:https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205:43-48 > > > > Matthew 5:43-48Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) > > 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and > hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that > curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which > despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 that ye may be the children of > your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and > on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye > love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the > same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do > not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father > which is in heaven is perfect. > > > > > > > > > > The following is from Biblehub site: > > > > > 5:43-48 The Jewish teachers by neighbour understood only those who were of > their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon > as their friends. The Lord Jesus teaches that we must do all the real > kindness we can to all, especially to their souls. We must pray for them. > While many will render good for good, we must render good for evil; and this > will speak a nobler principle than most men act by. Others salute their > brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion, but we > must not so confine our respect. It is the duty of Christians to desire, and > aim at, and press towards perfection in grace and holiness. And therein we > must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father, 1Pe > 1:15,16. Surely more is to be expected from the followers of Christ than from > others; surely more will be found in them than in others. Let us beg of God > to enable us to prove ourselves his children. > > Pulpit Commentary > > Verse 44. - Parallel passage: Luke 6:27, 28. But I say unto you, Love your > enemies. Of all kinds, whether personal or opponents of you as Christians. > Bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you. Rightly omitted by > the Revised Version as interpolated from Luke, (For the thought, cf. 1 > Corinthians 4:12; Romans 12:14.) And pray. In fullest contrast to the > continual ill-wishing of the enemy. "They who can pray for their enemies can > accomplish the rest" (Weiss, 'Life,' 2:154). Thus to pray is to come very > near to the spirit of Christ (cf. Luke 23:34; Acts 7:60). As a modern > example: "Some persons had never had a particular place in my prayers, but > for the injuries they have done to me" (Burkitt, ' Diary,' in Ford, on ver. > 5). For them that despitefully use you, and persecute you. The words, "that > despitefully use you and," are to be omitted, with the Revised Version, as in > effect interpolated from Luke. > > Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible > > But I say unto you, love your enemies,.... That is, as the Apostle Paul may > be thought to interpret the words of Christ, Romans 12:20. "If thine enemy > hunger, feed him: if he thirst, give him drink": unless our Lord should be > supposed rather to regard the internal affection of the mind; since outward > expressions of love, by words and works, are urged in the following > exhortations: the actions of a man may be hated, and just indignation be > expressed against them, and yet his person be loved, tenderness be used to > him, and pity shown him: all men, even enemies, are to be loved with a > natural love, as men; though they cannot be loved with a spiritual affection, > as brethren in Christ: and in natural affection there are degrees, according > to the relation and circumstances that persons stand in to one another. > > Bless them that curse you: when wicked men curse you, as Shimei cursed David, > do not "render evil for evil, or railing for railing, but contrariwise, > blessing"; give good words, use kind language, mild and soft expressions; > such as may either win upon them, or put them to shame and silence: "bless, > and curse not"; the latter belongs to them, the former to you; "let them > curse, but bless thou": curses better fit their mouths, and blessings thine. > Blessing here, does not signify praising them, for that would be sinful, > which is sometimes the sense of the word; nor wishing, or praying for a > blessing on them, which is right and good; but this is mentioned afterwards, > as distinct from blessing; wherefore, it is better to understand it of a > sweet and engaging address unto, and behaviour and conduct towards such, > whose mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. > > Do good to them that hate you; such as hate you in their hearts, and discover > their hatred by their actions; do not make returns in the same way, but on > the contrary, do them all the good you can; perform all the kind offices that > lie in your power; let them partake of your bounty and liberality; if poor, > feed, clothe, and supply them, as you are able, with the necessaries of life; > and give them wholesome advice for the good of their souls: by "so doing", > you will "heap coals of fire on their heads"; of enemies, make them friends; > engage their affections to you, and you may be happy instruments in doing > them good, both in soul and body: > > and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you. What Christ > here commands and advises to, he himself did; for as he hung upon the cross, > he prayed for his crucifiers, who were then using him in the most despiteful, > as well as cruel manner; saying, "Father, forgive them, for they know not > what they do": and in this he has left us an example, that we should tread in > his steps; and here in he was quickly followed by his holy martyr Stephen; > who, whilst he was being stoned, prayed for his persecutors and murderers, > saying, "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge". This breathes out the true > spirit of Christianity, and is peculiar to it. The whole of this is directly > opposite to the tenets of the Jews, particularly the Scribes and Pharisees; > who allowed of revenge, and keeping anger against any person that had done > them an injury, as has been observed: and which were also the sentiments of > the Karaites, or Scripturarians, another sect among them who kept to the > letter of the Scriptures, and rejected the traditions of the elders, which > the Pharisees held: but in this they agreed with them, > > "that it was right to do good to their friends, and to forgive them that > asked pardon of them; but to such men who rendered evil, and did not return > to do well, that they might receive forgiveness, , "it is not forbidden to > revenge, and to keep anger against them" (s).'' > > It is indeed said (t) of their former holy men, "Hasideans", which some have > thought to be the same with the "Essenes", and a sort of Christians; however, > were a better sort of Jews; that these > > "heard their reproach, but did not return it; and not only so, but they > pardoned him that reproached them, and forgave him.'' > > And it is reported of these men, that they used to pray to God to pardon and > forgive all that disturbed them. But the Pharisees, whom Christ had to do > with, and against whom he inveighs, were men of another complexion. > > (s) R. Eliahu in Adderet, c. 3. apud Trigland. de Sect. Karaeorum, c. 10. p. > 166, 167. (t) Maimon. Hilch. Talmud Tora. c. 7. sect. 13. > > Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary > > 44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies—The word here used denotes moral > love, as distinguished from the other word, which expresses personal > affection. Usually, the former denotes "complacency in the character" of the > person loved; but here it denotes the benignant, compassionate outgoings of > desire for another's good. > > bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them > which despitefully use you, and persecute you—The best commentary on these > matchless counsels is the bright example of Him who gave them. (See 1Pe > 2:21-24; and compare Ro 12:20, 21; 1Co 4:12; 1Pe 3:9). But though such > precepts were never before expressed—perhaps not even conceived—with such > breadth, precision, and sharpness as here, our Lord is here only the > incomparable Interpreter of the law in force from the beginning; and this is > the only satisfactory view of the entire strain of this discourse. > > Matthew 5:44 Additional Commentaries > Context > Love Your Enemies > …43"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate > your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who > persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for > He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the > righteous and the unrighteous.… > Cross References > 1 Samuel 24:17 > "You are more righteous than I," he said. "You have treated me well, but I > have treated you badly. > > Proverbs 19:11 > A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an > offense. > > Proverbs 25:21 > If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him > water to drink. > > Luke 6:27 > "But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who > hate you, > > Luke 6:28 > bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. > > Luke 23:34 > Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." > And they divided up his clothes by casting lots. > > John 13:34 > "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must > love one another. > > > > David > > > > >> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 2:17 AM, The Resolution of Mind list >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> ************* >> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] >> ************ >> Hi Alessandro >> I see your point. If you want to play games with compulsive games players >> where they will respect you you have to match their violence and block their >> postulates. >> >> If that is what you want to do then you can do it. >> >> But that is a game I have played many times and am working out the details >> of how to not play compulsive games any more. >> >> So how could I handle aggressive guys in the military with a complementary >> postulate. >> >> Nothing comes immediately to mind but that just means I need to work out a >> number of responses to that type of situation such as creating the >> impression that a high ranking officer is walking by while snapping to >> attention and saluting. When they automatically do the same say "Yes Sir" >> and walk away. They will think someone game me an order and do nothing to >> interfere. >> You could also really put these guys off by saying "Please Please push me >> around." They will wonder where the hidden camera is and go away. >> Sun Tzu in "The Art of War" suggests that the way to stop an opposing army >> is to put something unexpected in their path. This pleading to be pushed >> around fits that bill. >> >> While Dennis mentioned the complementary postulate if you peruse the level 5 >> chart you will find that in any game you have opposing players, >> complementary players and an audience but then there are millions of people >> who are doing nothing at all in a particular game. For instance you could >> start a football game and have fellow players, opponent players an audience >> and millions of people who are paying no attention to your game because they >> are playing other games. >> So this means you can put up a complementary postulate to someone else's >> game or no postulate at all as you just wander away uninterested in what >> they are doing. >> >> So these toughs come up to you and you tap the button on your cell phone so >> it rings and put it to your ear and say "Yes, Sir." And just walk away >> completely ignoring the guys. >> >> I'm sure you could come up with other responses to this situation. >> >> Now let's move up the gradient. The tax man contacts you and says you owe >> sales tax on a shipment you got delivered by truck. You respond by saying >> "I don't recall receiving that item. Can you be more specific on what was in >> the shipment, who was the carrier, what was the parcel number etc.". "I can >> check my records and see if I can figure out what it was. Will you call me >> back tomorrow?" >> When the tax man hangs up you go over your feelings about this guy and what >> he wants. You release any resistance to paying the bill if you must but you >> put out the pan determined postulate that it is such a small tax bill and so >> much bother that the tax man would rather just let this one go while he >> takes up a tax bill that will get him more money. >> >> The chances are good that this effort on your part will end up with no call >> back from the tax man at all. ( this actually worked for me by the way.) >> >> So Alessandro you see that complementary postulates is only the first step >> in handling other game players. And what I put above is just a few examples. >> You can work out other ways. >> >> Another one comes to mind. People think that if there is a "Law" about >> something that it is always uniformly applied. This is definitely not the >> case. For instance if it is the law that you cannot spit on the sidewalk and >> it is a capital offense to do so can you think of ways to do it without >> being caught or where being caught will so embarrass the police that they >> will not enforce the rule? >> >> Have fun with developing your skill at not playing others games. >> >> Sincerely >> Peter McLaughlin >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On Mar 14, 2016, at 10:02 PM, The Resolution of Mind list >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > ************* >> > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] >> > ************ >> > Il 13/03/16 13:00, [email protected] ha scritto: >> >> Hi Alessandro >> >> What you are proposing with "to out create" being to force another to >> >> experience what the other is creating is a games condition. Is that what >> >> you want to do? >> >> >> >> To me Dennis's idea of creating a complementary postulate to the >> >> suppressive persons game and not playing any games with them is the >> >> better solution. >> >> >> >> Just because another gives offense does not mean you have to take offense. >> >> >> >> Sincerely >> >> Pete McLaughlin >> > Hi Pete, >> > first of all I had this intuition or you you could call it a >> > realization.Then I thought about it , and see if it could be used in life. >> > Or how to apply it and if it is worth using it.And think about this : a >> > complementary postulate to somebody that is shouting at you saying "you >> > stupid man!" wouldn't be shouting back to him "you stupid man , I am not >> > going playing you stupid game,shut up!". >> > >> > To bring into existence an opposition postulate to and aggression (be it >> > verbal or phisical) would be to receive the offence, stay quiet and go >> > away.Isn't it ? I know it sounds odd, but think about the fact that people >> > like us , that like to live an ethic life , and trying to never arm >> > someone else,and that refuse violence , have also put to 0 a class of >> > postulates, that suppressive people have put to 1 and use it daily.Lie >> > Dennis says, when he was making an example about how to program a >> > mind,that what you do with this technic is up to you and you are the only >> > one responsible for any outcome.I think we should learn and accept to use >> > "violence" , by being wery much aware about the outcomes. >> > Obviously and don't go aroung shouting to any people that offends me. >> > There is a gradient scale.You have to use with some common sense to the >> > situation you are facing.You can go from standing firmly on you word,not >> > accepting any provocation remaining calm , to shout like hell,if needed. >> > If we assign to win the value 1 and to lose the value 0 , then all the >> > possible classes of outcomes you can experience,are" >> > >> > Myself the other guy >> > >> > class 1) 1 and 0 = I win the other lose >> > , means I use violence to him , but this not the case so I put this >> > postulates class to 0 in my daily life >> > >> > class 2) 0 and 1 = I lose the other wins , >> > means I receive the aggression , keep silent , and accept to be a >> > victim.you put this class of postulates >> > to 1 if you >> > don't react . >> > >> > class 3) 0 and 0 = we both lose , means we >> > both kill each other ? >> > >> > class 4) 1 and 1 = we both win , means we >> > both demostrate to the other our strength , and we both decide to not go >> > on , and we respect each >> > other.(this >> > class of postulates I experienced . For example once in my life . when I >> > was doing the military service,I was sent to >> > a new >> > barrack.There I was a new person to all the other person there.The second >> > day I was there , while I was dressing myself, >> > two other guys >> > came to me and says "let's see how strong you are" , and they assaulted >> > me.I didn't try to escape or to avoid >> > the fight, >> > instead I react and attacked them.The results ? they stopped fighting and >> > from that moment I gained their respect. >> > >> > What do you think ? >> > happy RI-ing >> > alessandro. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > TROM mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> _______________________________________________ >> TROM mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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