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Subject: [trom] Replay B42
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Subject:
TROM: Replay
B42
Date:
Fri, 02 Oct 1998
18:50:16 +0200
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Organization:
International
Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
From: Administrator: trom-l
Subject:
Re: Replay 47
Date:
Wed, 05 Nov 1997 08:33:54 -0500
From:
[email protected] (Robert Ducharme)
To:
[email protected], [email protected]
At 08:53 AM 11/5/97 +0100, Dustin wrote:
>At one point in time I actually was seeking after these sort of
things as
>well. After almost a year of level 5, I am actually very happy
with
>being human. I am here in this body, being this body for a very
good
>purpose and for a definite period of time. I am more than
content to
>live out the passion and the drama that is this life.
>
>TROM can be most effective when it is done for its own sake, without
lust of
>result. Equilibrium is the law of our world. You don't
create 1)
>without creating -1) (referring to the above). You can be
Buddha and
>choose not to create or desire anything, or you can be the Son of Man
and
>live out your life on earth according to your divine will.
These are, of
>course, not your only choices.
>
>I don't see any special advantages being gained from 1) and 2)
above. In
>1), why do you say full perceptics? Do you mean you want to go
through
>all of this trouble just to gain the ability to see the world as you
>already see it, only from different viewpoints? You are selling
yourself
>short. Creating a plane of existence where you can
"see" things and
>understand their relation to you in a much deeper way than your eyes
allow
>would be much more desirable, no?
>
>I suppose being able to create and destroy physical objects is
>desirable, but if you look around, you will see all of the beautiful
>objects you have created. You say that you still can't create
and
>destroy at will? I would suggest that you do not confuse your
"will"
>with chemical fluctuations in your brain. Arbitrary thoughts
and desires
>are not what drive your existence.
>
>You can create and destroy at will all right. Indeed you
can.
>
>
>
>>
>
>Dustin
Somehow I detect a giving up on the loftier goals here and settling for
the
status quo. I fail to see how that differs from the standard results of
the
church's processing. So if that's true, then what is there to be
gained
from TROM that is not available elsewhere?
Can anybody tell me how TROM differs resultwise from NOTS, where the
end
point is supposed to be a space that is clear of all sensation while
the
being remains attached to his body?
I would be inclined to agree with Dustin had I not become aware of
people
who have transcended the need for bodies to operate. These people
were
admittedly pretty spiritually able to begin with, but I could see how
the
right processing extended their abilities tremendously.
I think people think of going exterior as being like leaving the body
by
astral projecting one's "inner body" that would be merely a
replacement for
the physical body, but could fly and be invisible. From the reports I
got,
exterior vision is infinitely grander than what would be possible in a
body.
One person I've dealt with told me of taking a vacation to Europe
first by
leaving the body and then physically in the body. When he made the
physical
visit, he said he felt so disappointed by comparison with what he'd seen
in
spirit form that he left a week early. Apparantly exterior vision does
have
its advantages.
Has anyone gone beyond being "happy as a human" by use of
TROM?
Robert
Subject:
Re: Replay 47
Date:
Wed, 5 Nov 1997 12:29:23 -0500 (EST)
From:
"Dustin W. Carr"
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Robert,
Thanks for your reply. I generally do not care much for my writings
from
the past, but I felt that this one was timeless for me. While I am
hardly
the same person who wrote it, I still feel adequately qualified to
comment
on the authors ideas.
>
>Somehow I detect a giving up on the loftier goals here and settling
for the
>status quo. I fail to see how that differs from the standard
results of the
>church's processing. So if that's true, then what is there to
be gained
>from TROM that is not available elsewhere?
Read closer :-). I said that I believed that seeking the
"Maier's
Criterion" is settling for less than what can be achieved, what has
been
achieved through the use of TROM.
Also, what I did not make clear, is that it is not ideal to have an idea
of
what enlightenment is before you are enlightened. It is very important
for
a person to be happy with his or her current state, and to not lust
after
something of which he or she knows nothing.
>
>Can anybody tell me how TROM differs resultwise from NOTS, where the
end
>point is supposed to be a space that is clear of all sensation while
the
>being remains attached to his body?
>
>I would be inclined to agree with Dustin had I not become aware of
people
>who have transcended the need for bodies to operate. These
people were
>admittedly pretty spiritually able to begin with, but I could see how
the
>right processing extended their abilities tremendously.
>
TROM can do some things for all people. I am not sure it can bring
about
the states you describe for all. My level of attainment has only
occurred
through my own modification of trom into something that works well for
me.
I can not comment on what other people have achieved. Dennis Stephens
has
stated what he has achieved and I have no reason to believe he would
lie.
>I think people think of going exterior as being like leaving the body
by
>astral projecting one's "inner body" that would be
merely a replacement for
>the physical body, but could fly and be invisible. From the reports I
got,
>exterior vision is infinitely grander than what would be possible in
a body.
Yes.
>
> One person I've dealt with told me of taking a vacation to Europe
first by
>leaving the body and then physically in the body. When he made
the physical
>visit, he said he felt so disappointed by comparison with what he'd
seen in
>spirit form that he left a week early. Apparantly exterior
vision does have
>its advantages.
Of course it does. In the end, however, it is just another state of
existence. The ability to create new states of existence, and to
change
constantly from one state to another is much more interesting.
Believing
that leaving the body is a dramatically improved state of existence
can
result in a compulsive games condition.
>
>Has anyone gone beyond being "happy as a human" by use of
TROM?
>
I have gone beyond, around, through, into, over, behind, above, and
under
being happy as a human. :-)
Dustin
>Robert
Dustin W.
Carr
607-255-2329
Electron Beam Lithography
Engineer
[email protected]
Cornell Nanofabrication Facility
Knight Laboratory
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
Subject:
Re: Replay 47
Date:
Sat, 8 Nov 1997 21:34:08 +0000
From:
Judith Methven
<[email protected]>
To:
Robert Ducharme <[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected], [email protected]
I have left in a lot of text at the beginning so as to lend sense to
the
end. :-)
In message <[email protected]>, Robert Ducharme
<[email protected]> writes
>At 08:53 AM 11/5/97 +0100, Dustin wrote:
>
>>At one point in time I actually was seeking after these sort of
things as
>>well. After almost a year of level 5, I am actually very
happy with
>>being human. I am here in this body, being this body for a
very good
>>purpose and for a definite period of time. I am more than
content to
>>live out the passion and the drama that is this life.
>>
>>TROM can be most effective when it is done for its own sake,
without lust
of
>>result. Equilibrium is the law of our world. You
don't create 1)
>>without creating -1) (referring to the above). You can be
Buddha and
>>choose not to create or desire anything, or you can be the Son of
Man and
>>live out your life on earth according to your divine will.
These are, of
>>course, not your only choices.
>>
>>I don't see any special advantages being gained from 1) and 2)
above. In
>>1), why do you say full perceptics? Do you mean you want to
go through
>>all of this trouble just to gain the ability to see the world as
you
>>already see it, only from different viewpoints? You are
selling yourself
>>short. Creating a plane of existence where you can
"see" things and
>>understand their relation to you in a much deeper way than your
eyes allow
>>would be much more desirable, no?
>>
>>I suppose being able to create and destroy physical objects is
>>desirable, but if you look around, you will see all of the
beautiful
>>objects you have created. You say that you still can't
create and
>>destroy at will? I would suggest that you do not confuse
your "will"
>>with chemical fluctuations in your brain. Arbitrary
thoughts and desires
>>are not what drive your existence.
>>
>>You can create and destroy at will all right. Indeed you
can.
>>
>>
>>
>
>>>
>>
>>Dustin
>
>Somehow I detect a giving up on the loftier goals here and settling
for the
>status quo.
I see it as a setting up of what ever you like. :-) (Which is far
superior to anything else)
> I fail to see how that differs from the standard results of
the
>church's processing. So if that's true, then what is there to
be gained
>from TROM that is not available elsewhere?
Nothing. There is no only way.
>I would be inclined to agree with Dustin had I not become aware of
people
>who have transcended the need for bodies to operate. These
people were
>admittedly pretty spiritually able to begin with, but I could see how
the
>right processing extended their abilities tremendously.
Spirituality is not all there is. Anyway, what is spiritually able?
We need a good balance between physical, mental and spiritual in
order
to be a whole being and operate well in the sphere in which we find
ourselves.
>
>I think people think of going exterior as being like leaving the body
by
>astral projecting one's "inner body" that would be
merely a replacement for
>the physical body, but could fly and be invisible. From the reports I
got,
>exterior vision is infinitely grander than what would be possible in
a
body.
>
> One person I've dealt with told me of taking a vacation to Europe
first by
>leaving the body and then physically in the body. When he made
the physical
>visit, he said he felt so disappointed by comparison with what he'd
seen in
>spirit form that he left a week early. Apparantly exterior
vision does have
>its advantages.
>
And its disadvantages.
Poor fellow. It sounds like life here could become disappointing. :-)
Perhaps he should consider changing his approach in order to improve
being where he actually is :-)
>Has anyone gone beyond being "happy as a human" by use of
TROM?
That is a definition that means different things to different people.
One thing for sure is that those who are enlightened know it is no
big
deal. Those who are think it is, aren't. :-)
OT abilities are something that occur naturally as you evolve. If
you
concentrate on improving your knowingness (which is completely
different
to knowing about, or believing), tone level and happiness, that is
all
that is required. One day you will turn around and discover that you
have tremendous OT abilities, and you weren't even aiming for them!
That is how it should be...these abilities carry responsibilities and
it
is much better for us that we should be evolved to a stage where we
are
able to shoulder these responsibilities in a way that is healthy for
us
and others. If you get to that stage, the abilities will just be
there!
Having the abilities as an aim, could turn out to be somewhat
unbalanced, and backfire.
The most superior of OT abilities, and the only one that one really
needs is intuition. As this develops, all sorts of exciting and
interesting vistas appear - and what is more since one is intuitive,
one
actually KNOWS them. That is truly wonderful!
It is seldom a good idea to change the laws of this universe. (Often
this is so for the sake of the beings that live here - otherwise the
laws wouldn't be in operation and the beings wouldn't be here. Let
us
live by them and just evolve within them. One day we will transcend
them with no effort, and that is how it should be.
OT abilities are one of those things that are most easily achieved
by
following a path that is not directly aimed at them.
Until then, it may be wise to set ourselves more attainable goals.
Our
higher selves have a canny knack of keeping us from things that are
not
appropriate - on the other hand you can have what ever you wish, so
be
careful of what you wish. :-)
Let us just use what we have - go forward a step at a time and then
we
will be amazed when we look round, test ourselves, and see how much
we
really know.
Trom could be thought of as a step.
Judith
When you don't know anything, tea is tea.
Then you study tea and philosophise tea.
Then one day, tea is tea again.
Mr Yamanda - Tea Master
--
Judith Methven
Subject:
Ducharme on
Replay 47
Date:
Wed, 05 Nov 1997
20:24:14 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Organization:
Interrnatimonal
Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Robert Ducharme says (amongst other things): "So if that's true,
then
what is there to be gained from TROM that is not available elsewhere?
"
One quick answer is a purse (bank account) that stays about the same
size. Though of course I have no idea that there are are not other
ways
of getting the same results while retaining ones money. Perhaps also
the
proud sense of having done it oneself (ditto proviso).
Robert also says: "I would be inclined to agree with Dustin had I
not
become aware of people who have transcended the need for bodies to
operate"
Would be nice to have more specifics: who and what? Are you thinking
perhaps of Sai Baba?
With regard to exterior vision, are you seeing other wavelengths
than
the eye sees (the socalled visible spectrum), for instant ultra
violet,
infrared, and perhaps radio? I am rather glad I can't see radio
waves
:-)
I'll leave others to look at the other pints and queries Robert makes.
It is nice to get 1997 contributions to the list, as well as looking
at
my computers bank :-)
--
Ant
Subject:
Re: Ducharme on Replay 47
Date:
Thu, 06 Nov 1997 13:47:33 -0500
From:
[email protected] (Robert Ducharme)
To:
[email protected], [email protected]
At 08:24 PM 11/5/97 +0100, Antony wrote:
>Robert also says: "I would be inclined to agree with Dustin had
I not
>become aware of people who have transcended the need for bodies
to
>operate"
>
>Would be nice to have more specifics: who and what? Are you
thinking
>perhaps of Sai Baba?
Certain ex-Scientologists I know personally. They have bodies, but they
can
do things without a body that I'm not able to do yet - at least
knowingly.
>With regard to exterior vision, are you seeing other wavelengths
than
>the eye sees (the socalled visible spectrum), for instant ultra
violet,
>infrared, and perhaps radio? I am rather glad I can't see radio
waves
>:-)
I'm not aware of being able to do that, but then infrared, radio,
and
ultraviolet rays never interested me as much as ads for ladies'
underwear
which I've been practicing x-ray vision on with moderate success. :-)
I
wonder if TROM could increase that ability. I'm admittedly ignorant
about
the effects of using TROM.
Robert
Subject:
"Freedom" from the body
Date:
Sat, 8 Nov 1997 03:09:54 -0500
From:
Rowland Barkley
<[email protected]>
To:
TROM <[email protected]>
>>>
There is a very definite point to the abilities I've listed above. I
want freedom from the need for a body. This does not mean that I might
not decide to keep a body around, and to continue to operate from it.
But I do want to choose either according to my whim. My goal is
freedom. The two abilities I've listed I consider to be rather
elementary in that quest. I have many more goals above those. I
consider freedom to be the achievement of my goals, not selling out for
something short of them.
Bill
<<<
While "you" work on freedom from need for a body, the body will
work on
freedom from need for you.
The body is very skilled at successfully punishing you, including by
generating spurious illusions of "spiritual" goals, in exchange
for this
authoritarian hypnotic approach of dominating it by "operating
it".
* * * * * * * * * * *
Rowland Anton Barkley the Deep Tranceforming....shaman
[Domain name removed its now (2016) regarded as
spam and blocking me sending this -Ant]
* * * * * * "Create your dream and step into
it"
Subject:
The Outer Limits
Date:
Sat, 08 Nov 1997 21:18:22 -0500
From:
[email protected] (Robert Ducharme)
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
I just finished watching another "Outer Limits" episode and I
just cognited
on what's wrong with people who love, accept, and want to make the best
of,
the status quo. They don't get to watch enough Outer Limits.
I believe The Outer Limits is our voice from beyond reaching out to us.
Robert
Subject:
[Fwd: Re: The
Outer Limits]
Date:
Mon, 10 Nov 1997
07:21:36 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Organization:
International
Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
This is a footnote to Roberts earlier posting.
Many thanks for sending, Robert.
Hi,
Ant
Subject:
Re: The Outer Limits
Date:
Sun, 09 Nov 1997 14:00:41 -0500
From:
[email protected] (Robert Ducharme)
To:
[email protected]
At 04:55 PM 11/9/97 +0100, [email protected] wrote:
>Got it, Thanks for putting on trom-l butt... see later.
>
>
>Robert Ducharme wrote:
>>
>> I just finished watching another "Outer Limits"
episode
>
>You have an international audience, and one person at least (me)
who
>does not have a telivision. So a it of an R-factor on what
outer lints
>is might help. Fact programme, or starwars type?. American,
australian,
>brietish what?
Outer Limits is a weekly American television program that is a kind
of
science fiction psychodrama. Several stories involve people existing
in
realities that they are absolutely sure is real, only to find out in the
end
that they were the victim of their illusions - that is if they were
among
the few who were fortunate enough to find out. And even then they can't
be
sure that the "reality" they're viewing the illusions from is
real.
Very spooky stuff, but entertaining and maybe a bit enlightening and
maybe
even applicable to the "real" world.
Robert
>> and I just cognited
>> on what's wrong with people who love, accept, and want to make
the best of,
>> the status quo. They don't get to watch enough Outer
Limits.
>>
>> I believe The Outer Limits is our voice from beyond reaching out
to us.
>>
>> Robert
>
>--
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
>Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy) see Home Page:
>
http://home.sn.no/home/trone/IVy.html
>
>
>
Subject:
Big reads
Date:
Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:54:00 +1000
From:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
To:
trom <[email protected]>
Attached is a comment from a local TROM user. They have asked to
have
this raised on TROM-L. My own sensation of a large read is like
waves
of electric current passing through my body, a tingling sensation is
also strongly felt in my arms and hands. This can last up to a
minute.
What are others sensations of a charge?
Regards,
John
>Hi
>I'm new to TROM and have no meter. As such I am reliant on 'body
reads'
to steer my attention. (Other than itching, nausea, etc, >etc)
I'm
talking about big reads experienced when charge is released upon
cognition.
>I have always felt this as a spine tingling sensation which
brings
about great relief, particularly in the muscles of the back.
>HOWEVER, I recently ran into another Tromster who said NO - the
really
big reads feel like a 'body blush' (heat running up >through the
body)
but bringing no muscular relief!
>Whats going on?
>Also he suggested I may need Objective processes. But the TROM
manual
implies only psychos need to do these.
>Whats going on?
>yours etc
>ELmer Beitzel
Subject:
Big reads
Date:
Thu, 13 Nov 1997
11:14:03 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Organization:
International
Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Merritt, John S wrote:
>
> Attached is a comment from a local TROM user.
Warms a trom-l administrators heart to hear of TROM being used here
and
now. Thanks John for passing it on to us all.
> >I'm new to TROM and have no meter.
I think it commendable and optimum to work without an e-meter. The
opposite is to have a world full of people relying on emeters instead
of
direct perception and intuition.
>
> >I have always felt this as a spine tingling sensation which
brings
> about great relief, particularly in the muscles of the back.
>
> >HOWEVER, I recently ran into another Tromster who said NO - the
really
> big reads feel like a 'body blush' (heat running up >through the
body)
> but bringing no muscular relief!
>
> >Whats going on?
Who says every one is the same?
Read how others do TROM for your edification. Don't let differences
between others invalidate your own knowingness (intuition) and
direct
perception.
We are different. Have made different decisions (positive thoughts)
in
the past. Some of these effect how we experience.
On objectives. There is a wicked reality in the church that
objectives
are only for pyschos. Not a few preclears have been ARC broken
because,
when the c/s suggested objectives, they felt they were being
evaluated
for as psychotic. It is a "wicked" reality because it has
denied people
help.
I doubt if you "need" objectives (before TROM), if you pass
Dennis' test
for level 2. But I would guess there is a 80% chance you would get a
lot
out of them, if you could find an auditor willing to give (or
co-audit
fifty to 100 hours).
There has been some positive talk about this by old timesr on the
list
methods-l, and (excuse the advert, IVy pays for my Internet
connection)
International Viewpoints has one article on it in the present
number.
Six in the coming one, and plan more. Objectives and the theory
behind
them, which allows/implies the application of the theory outside of
normal auditing, are a very valuable part of Scientology.
> >ELmer Beitzel
Good TROMing, Elmer
Ant
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy) see Home Page:
http://home.sn.no/home/trone/IVy.html
Subject:
[Fwd: Big
reads]
Date:
Sun, 16 Nov 1997
07:58:58 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
Organization:
International
Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Arent there any _real_ trommers with a helping hand and a word of
encouragement to this fellow?
Subject:
Big reads
Date:
Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:54:00 +1000
From:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
To:
trom <[email protected]>
Attached is a comment from a local TROM user. They have asked to
have
this raised on TROM-L. My own sensation of a large read is like
waves
of electric current passing through my body, a tingling sensation is
also strongly felt in my arms and hands. This can last up to a
minute.
What are others sensations of a charge?
Regards,
John
>Hi
>I'm new to TROM and have no meter. As such I am reliant on 'body
reads'
to steer my attention. (Other than itching, nausea, etc, >etc)
I'm
talking about big reads experienced when charge is released upon
cognition.
>I have always felt this as a spine tingling sensation which
brings
about great relief, particularly in the muscles of the back.
>HOWEVER, I recently ran into another Tromster who said NO - the
really
big reads feel like a 'body blush' (heat running up >through the
body)
but bringing no muscular relief!
>Whats going on?
>Also he suggested I may need Objective processes. But the TROM
manual
implies only psychos need to do these.
>Whats going on?
>yours etc
>ELmer Beitzel
Subject:
Re: [Fwd: Big reads]
Date:
Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:38:52 +1000
From:
Judith Anderson <[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Dear Elmer, That you sense your 'reads' as you do seems fine. How
someone
else senses reads is how they sense them. That Tromster who did that
amazing evaluation should reread the auditors code. When I was on
the
Briefing Course another student and I (Mick Parkee) did Dating
Drills
without a meter, just by observation of the other, with ARC. For my part
it
was looking at his eyes, and the tiniest flicker would be the
read.
You are not indicating any 'problems' in auditing Trom, so why would
a
Tromster suggest a 'remedy'???????
On IVy Subscribers recently three people (including me) gave success
stories
about "Objectives" - no we are not psychos nor were we, we just
happened to
come in at a time when objectives were used successfully and a lot,
and
aren't we lucky!!!
There would be no harm in your having Objectives, but are you having
trouble
with Trom? Dennis always says drop back if you are.
By the way Nick in England has a Web page for Ability meters
http://www.trans4mind.u-net.com/ability.html
(I think the u-net is a hyphen like that, but it could be a ~ (a
wave))
Keep Troming, Judith A.
At 07:58 AM 11/16/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Arent there any _real_ trommers with a helping hand and a word
of
>encouragement to this fellow?
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>From: "Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
>To: trom <[email protected]>
>Subject: Big reads
>Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:54:00 +1000
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>
>Attached is a comment from a local TROM user. They have asked
to have
>this raised on TROM-L. My own sensation of a large read is like
waves
>of electric current passing through my body, a tingling sensation
is
>also strongly felt in my arms and hands. This can last up to a
minute.
>What are others sensations of a charge?
>
>Regards,
>John
>
>>Hi
>
>>I'm new to TROM and have no meter. As such I am reliant on 'body
reads'
>to steer my attention. (Other than itching, nausea, etc, >etc)
I'm
>talking about big reads experienced when charge is released upon
>cognition.
>
>>I have always felt this as a spine tingling sensation which
brings
>about great relief, particularly in the muscles of the back.
>
>>HOWEVER, I recently ran into another Tromster who said NO - the
really
>big reads feel like a 'body blush' (heat running up >through the
body)
>but bringing no muscular relief!
>
>>Whats going on?
>
>>Also he suggested I may need Objective processes. But the TROM
manual
>implies only psychos need to do these.
>
>>Whats going on?
>
>>yours etc
>>ELmer Beitzel
>
Judith K. Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~ \\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
Received: from meth.demon.co.uk ([194.222.125.220]) by
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Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 18:38:55 +0000
To: Judith Anderson <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
From: Judith Methven <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Big reads]
In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a
<C2YdG9ei9Cn9vk+2qpTTHlOqYA>
Dear Elmer
>>
>>>I'm new to TROM and have no meter. As such I am reliant on
'body reads'
>>to steer my attention. (Other than itching, nausea, etc, >etc)
I'm
>>talking about big reads experienced when charge is released
upon
>>cognition.
>>
>>>I have always felt this as a spine tingling sensation which
brings
>>about great relief, particularly in the muscles of the back.
>>
>>>HOWEVER, I recently ran into another Tromster who said NO -
the really
>>big reads feel like a 'body blush' (heat running up >through
the body)
>>but bringing no muscular relief!
>>
Your release of charge sounds fine. Great relief is your surest
indication of charge being released. This happens in different ways
for
different people. The general idea is that you feel 'better'.
So I would venture to say, that you are doing well. Keep going.
Follow
your own instincts. That is good. If its working for you its right
for
you.
Sounds to me like your releases of charge are just as big as anyone
elses. There is no rule for what a big read feels like.
>>>Whats going on?
>>
>>>Also he suggested I may need Objective processes. But the
TROM manual
>>implies only psychos need to do these.
Objective processes are wonderful, magical things for anyone. I do
them
with my kids, my dog, my tai chi class - they all love them and they
all
come up tone without fail. They improve anybody at any stage - all
that
is required is the willingness to duplicate. They are easy and
wonderful.
My advice is, do lots of objective processing. Its good stuff!
Brings
you into present time, and increases your awareness.
Judith
--
Judith Methven
Subject:
FW: [Fwd: Big reads]
Date:
Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:41:00 +1000
From:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
To:
trom <[email protected]>
Forwarding a reply from Elmer
Elmer wrote
----------
From: Elmer
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Big reads]
Date: Wednesday, 19 November 1997 1:33PM
Dear Judith A.
Thankyou for your reply,
> Dear Elmer, That you sense your 'reads' as you do seems fine.
How
someone
> else senses reads is how they sense them. That Tromster who
did
that
> amazing evaluation should reread the auditors code. When I
was on
the
> Briefing Course another student and I (Mick Parkee) did
Dating
Drills
> without a meter, just by observation of the other, with ARC.
For my
part it
> was looking at his eyes, and the tiniest flicker would be the
read.
I WANTED to know what the other tromster experienced just as I read
Ivy
articles etc to get others points of view.
>
> You are not indicating any 'problems' in auditing Trom, so
why
would a
> Tromster suggest a 'remedy'???????
>
Whereas I am not having 'problems' my results are not very dramatic
particularly in terms of any increased awareness or abilities
gained.
> On IVy Subscribers recently three people (including me)
gave
success stories
> about "Objectives" - no we are not psychos nor were
we, we just
happened to
> come in at a time when objectives were used successfully and
a lot,
and
> aren't we lucky!!!
>
> There would be no harm in your having Objectives, but are
you
having trouble
> with Trom? Dennis always says drop back if you are.
My boggle is this:- do I proceed with trom thru level 5 and hope it
will
bite. Or, find some way of doing Objectives before proceeding? (why
dont
factory process workers experience exteriorization with full
perceptics?)
>
> By the way Nick in England has a Web page for Ability
meters
>
You want me to get a meter? The last time I got on one of those my
T/A
was 3.2 (after handcream) and blewdown to 2.0 (recalling a freaky
incident) and the 'auditor' made a comment like "You must be in a
female
valence."
WHAT'S GOING ON???
yours truly,
@ @
%
(--------)
ELmer Beitzel
>
>
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
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