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Subject:
TROM:
Replay B43
Date:
Fri,
09 Oct 1998 21:10:25 +0200
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l, IVy
lists
Subject:
FW: [Fwd: Big reads]
Date:
Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:41:00
+1000
From:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
To:
trom
<[email protected]>
Forwarding a reply from Elmer
Elmer wrote
----------
From: Elmer
Subject: RE: [Fwd: Big reads]
Date: Wednesday, 19 November 1997 1:33PM
Dear Judith A.
Thank you for your reply,
> Dear Elmer, That you sense your 'reads' as you do seems fine.
How someone
> else senses reads is how they sense them. That Tromster who
did that
> amazing evaluation should reread the auditors code. When I
was on the
> Briefing Course another student and I (Mick Parkee) did
Dating Drills
> without a meter, just by observation of the other, with ARC.
For my part it
> was looking at his eyes, and the tiniest flicker would be the
read.
I WANTED to know what the other tromster experienced just as I read
Ivy
articles etc to get others points of view.
>
> You are not indicating any 'problems' in auditing Trom, so
why would a
> Tromster suggest a 'remedy'???????
>
Whereas I am not having 'problems' my results are not very dramatic
particularly in terms of any increased awareness or abilities
gained.
> On IVy Subscribers recently three people (including me) gave
success stories
> about "Objectives" - no we are not psychos nor were
we, we just happened to
> come in at a time when objectives were used successfully and
a lot, and
> aren't we lucky!!!
>
> There would be no harm in your having Objectives, but are you
having trouble
> with Trom? Dennis always says drop back if you are.
My boggle is this:- do I proceed with trom thru level 5 and hope it
will
bite. Or, find some way of doing Objectives before proceeding? (why
dont
factory process workers experience exteriorization with full
perceptics?)
>
> By the way Nick in England has a Web page for Ability
meters
>
You want me to get a meter? The last time I got on one of those my
T/A
was 3.2 (after handcream) and blewdown to 2.0 (recalling a freaky
incident) and the 'auditor' made a comment like "You must be in a
female
valence."
WHAT'S GOING ON???
yours truly,
@ @
%
(--------)
ELmer Beitzel
>
>
Subject:
Others experience
Date:
Fri,
21 Nov 1997 10:23:55 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
Elmer wrote (21 nov 1997 under heading Big reads): "I WANTED to
know
what the other tromster experienced just as I read Ivy
articles etc to get others points of view."
I'd say that was one of the primary aims of trom-l. Comparing notes.
And I think present time experience is better than something out of
the
archives. Maybe so many Replays is stifling present time comm. I was
sending three a week. Will cut down to one. And see if that
encourages
others to "fill the vacuum".
Communication is the pay of life.
Hi
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy, free copies, write
[email protected]
or [email protected])
Subject:
Trom and Excalibur
Date:
Fri, 21 Nov 1997 22:56:16 +1030
(CST)
From:
Ray Harman
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Hi, folks.
I heard a Trom
success story, last night.
This is from someone who is not on the Internet, but is an auditor of
great experience, who once worked with LRH, and currently lives quietly
and gets on with solo auditing.
They have been working on L. Kin's Excalibur level, and came across the
TROM book, and tried it out! Level One took a lot of work to flatten, but
having done so, Excalibur ran far more easily. And some aspects of
Excalibur which were not resolving were unlocked with the TROM level five
materials.
Regards,
Ray.
Subject:
Re: Trom and Excalibur
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:33:09
+1000
From:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
To:
Ray Harman
<[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected]
Dear Ray, Was that all to the success story? were there wins, gains,
abilities recovered, what?
Level One - is that Level One of TROM? that took a lot of work to
flatten?
Level One of Trom is of course the Objectives. Please clarify to
list.
Love Judith
At 10:56 PM 11/21/97 +1030, you wrote:
>Hi, folks.
> I
heard a Trom success story, last night.
>
>This is from someone who is not on the Internet, but is an auditor of
>great experience, who once worked with LRH, and currently lives
quietly
>and gets on with solo auditing.
>
>They have been working on L. Kin's Excalibur level, and came across
the
>TROM book, and tried it out! Level One took a lot of work to flatten,
but
>having done so, Excalibur ran far more easily. And some aspects of
>Excalibur which were not resolving were unlocked with the TROM level
five
>materials.
>
>Regards,
>
>Ray.
>
>
Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~
\\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
Elmer Beitzel
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 1997 15:33:22
+1000
From:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
To:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected]
Dear Elmer,
>I WANTED to know what the other tromster experienced just as I read
Ivy
>articles etc to get others points of view.
They will have to reply themselves.
>Whereas I am not having 'problems' my results are not very
dramatic
>particularly in terms of any increased awareness or abilities
gained.
Drama isn't exactly what I thought were the results of TROM.
>
>My boggle is this:- do I proceed with trom thru level 5 and hope it
will
>bite. Or, find some way of doing Objectives before proceeding? (why
dont
>factory process workers experience exteriorization with full
>perceptics?)
> > By the way Nick in England has a Web page for
Ability meters
>
>You want me to get a meter? The last time I got on one of those my
T/A
>was 3.2 (after handcream) and blewdown to 2.0 (recalling a
freaky
>incident) and the 'auditor' made a comment like "You must be in
a female
>valence."
>
>WHAT'S GOING ON???
Elmer, No I don't want you to get a meter if it doesn't indicate for
you.
I'm glad you put the word 'auditor' in quotes, for in truth you had
no
auditor. Who would say such a thing???? Not a real auditor. A blowdown
to
2.0 doesn't mean that anyway. It just means you had a lot of charge and
it
blew off.
Who knows why a factory process worker doesn't experience
exteriorization
with full perceptics - may be they do - besides that is not the EP
of
Objectives.
I'd say if you are getting some wins on TROM continue to Level IV then
write
to Judith Methven on this list as she and Leonard Dunn are the
technical
advisors of TROM, and discuss it with them.
All the best,
Judith
>
>yours truly,
>
> @ @
> %
>(--------)
>
>ELmer Beitzel
>
> >
> >
>
>
Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~
\\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
clarification
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 1997 23:21:05 +1030
(CST)
From:
Ray Harman
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Dear Trommers,
I had
a nudge to enlarge on what I said recently.
My commline, being a person with much auditing experience and expertise,
ran TROM level one, RI, and found it very powerful and produced much
change, such that it took hours to run flat. Perceptions thereafter were
much brighter... and the Excalibur process ran very much better.
I haven't got the person's okay to relay this, as they are on the other
end of a long comm line, so I have deliberately not said more than I
have.
Essentially I wanted you to know that a person who is far advanced with
their auditing, found TROM a great help .
Regards,
Ray.
Subject:
Re: Elmer Beitzel
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:40:28 -0500
(EST)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
CC:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>,
[email protected]
> >My boggle is this:- do I proceed with trom thru level 5 and hope
it will
> >bite. Or, find some way of doing Objectives before proceeding?
(why dont
> >factory process workers experience exteriorization with
full
> >perceptics?)
1.) There is no two way communication while doing the
process.
2.) The process is *WAY* overrun.
Homer
Subject:
Re: Elmer Beitzel
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:29:01
+0000
From:
Judith Methven
<[email protected]>
To:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
CC:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>,
[email protected]
Dear all
>
>>Whereas I am not having 'problems' my results are not very
dramatic
>>particularly in terms of any increased awareness or abilities
gained.
The size of the gains is of no importance. If you are gaining, then
that is good. Small steps are often easier to handle, and more
stable
than huge changes. Maybe you should regard small changes as a good
safety factor?
>
>I'd say if you are getting some wins on TROM continue to Level IV
then write
>to Judith Methven on this list as she and Leonard Dunn are the
technical
>advisors of TROM, and discuss it with them.
Yes, you are welcome.
Judith Methven
--
Judith Methven
Subject:
FW: EKB-03
Date:
Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:03:00
+1000
From:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
To:
trom
<[email protected]>
FW: from E.K Beitzel
Subject: EKB-03
Date: Tuesday, 25 November 1997 3:31PM
Hello Tromsters,
Currently I don't subscribe to IVy but I've read enough articles
from
the Lightlink Archives pertaining to TROM and related subjects to
help
me on my way.
I wonder though DOES READING ABOUT END PHENOMENA SPOIL THE
PROCESS?
Someone mentioned a major cog connected to trom level 3 (I think)
was
that all past scenes were actually created in the present . . .
therefore there is no such thing as a past scene. . . 'BoomShankar!
Time
is broken! (Thanks for the info.)
Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat too simplistic
(remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to a relaxation
exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into others and
then
inhales receiving happiness from others.
Call me a flake but this makes me feel better (change?). So I use
it.
yours
E.K. Beitzel
Subject:
RRI and levels
Date:
Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:12:43 +1030
(CST)
From:
Ray Harman
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Dear Trommers,
Maybe I have a massive misunderstood about TROM??
My understanding is that Level One and The Test and RI are all one and
the same thing.
My commline of whom I spoke got the big results with RI.
Regards,
Ray.
Subject:
Re: FW: EKB-03
Date:
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:43:28
+1000
From:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
To:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected]
Dear Elmer, Where to you live in Australia? May be there is someone
close
by we know who could give you some Objectives (TROM Level 1) I am in
Brisbane and we have a few auditors here.
>
>Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat too
simplistic
>(remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to a
relaxation
>exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into others and
then
>inhales receiving happiness from others.
TROM Level I (sometimes know as Objective Processes) is more a
physical
activity, touching the floor, the walls, the door, objects in the room,
-
specific actions in specific sequence done repetitively to a point of
doing
it without effort or any other consideration.
RI is not any thing to do with TROM Level one, but a creative process.
See
your material.
cheers, Judith A.
Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~
\\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
Re: RRI and levels
Date:
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:43:33
+1000
From:
Judith Anderson
<[email protected]>
To:
Ray Harman
<[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected]
Dear Ray,
Level One *If this step needs running it can only be successfully
completed
by a separate therapist* i.e. someone who knows how to run Objective
processes. Level One is really Objectives.
In the Manual, RI is introducted under TROM Level One writeup, and there
IS
a Test to see if Level One needs to be done (i.e. objectives). Running
RI
successfully is the TEST. RI is not TROM Level One though.
>
>My commline of whom I spoke got the big results with RI.(from
Ray)
Ok. now that is clear, thanks Ray.
love Judith
Judith K.
Anderson
^..^
Tel/Fax. 61-7-3844 7576 ~
\\
\\
\\
\\ __________
\ /// // \
1 ________ 1 \
1 1 1 1
1 1 1 1
Subject:
Re:
RRI and levels
Date:
Wed,
26 Nov 1997 07:18:20 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
Ray
Harman <[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected]
References:
1
My understand is that level 1 TROM (rather like level one mental
development) was objectives (or something similar) done by a
practitioner, to get the person ready for TROM, and is often not
neccessary. It is true that RI is mentioned as a test for whether
level
one is neccessary. But since RI is an _essential_ part of the whole
of
TROM, I'd hesitate to assume folk knew I meant RI when I talked of
TROM
level 1.
(lets hope for the day when internet forwards intentions and not
words
:-) )
Maybe we should call level 1 level 0, because it isn't TROM, and
really
confuse everybody :-)
Hi,
Ant
Ray Harman wrote:
>
> Dear Trommers,
>
Maybe I have a massive misunderstood about TROM??
>
> My understanding is that Level One and The Test and RI are all one
and
> the same thing.
>
> My commline of whom I spoke got the big results with RI.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ray.
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy)
Subject:
Re:
FW: EKB-03
Date:
Wed,
26 Nov 1997 07:53:05 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
"Merritt, John S" <[email protected]>
CC:
[email protected], trom <[email protected]>
References:
1
Merritt, John S wrote:
>
> FW: from E.K Beitzel
> Subject: EKB-03
Mmm.
> Date: Tuesday, 25 November 1997 3:31PM
>
> Hello Tromsters,
>
> Currently I don't subscribe to IVy but I've read enough articles
from
> the Lightlink Archives pertaining to TROM and related subjects to
help
> me on my way.
As editor of IVy, I try to include articles on TROM to help promote
it,
to remind readers that there _is_ this practically free self help
method
which they can use or reccomend to their friends. Since one of
TROM's
advantages is that it is virtually free one should not need an IVy
subscription to help run it.
In fact, TROM ought to have its own Home Page, where TROM itself
could
be downloaded, all articles relating to TROM were available, and the
existence of TROM-l proclaimed. I don't think we lack the possibility
of
a free web site. We do, apparently (and appearances can be deceptive
:-) ) lack people to do the dog work.
I am willing to continue as trom-l administrator, but not anything
else.
>
> I wonder though DOES READING ABOUT END PHENOMENA SPOIL THE
PROCESS?
No. But it does depend on your intentions in running TROM.
My expereince of the Church of scientology suggests that all too
often
peoples intentions in running processes was to achieve status. The
worst
example I ran across was when I was flown into the sea Org Advanced
Organisation in Alicante (Spain) at Easter 1968. Sea Org members got
all
their levels free, and when we arrived the big news was that one Sea
org
member, that day, had attested to Clear, OT 1, OT2, OT3, OT4, and
OT5.
OT6 was the highest level,then, I think, and the fellow was unhappy
becasue Qual had shut before he could attest to OT6.
That may seem unbelieveable, but it is true, and perhaps might give
a
better idea as to why Scientology has gone the way it has - to some
degree Scn was lurching along from one extreme to another. And at
Saint
Hill, England, where I worked, my impression was that to some it was
as
important to have a high position on the org board (status) as to do
a
good, usefull job of work. (There was a deal of enthusiasm there,
though, very enjoyable)
Against that background, perhaps you can see why the idea of it
being
dangerous to tell the pc the end phenomenon arose (which Dennis may
have
perpetrated, I don't remember - but many have perpetrated).
Earlier, it was something of a sin to run a pc on a process without
giving him some idea what it was all about - called an R (reality)
factor.
So if you know the (supposed) end phenomona, and do the process
honestly
I can not see any harm. But since you are an individual, different
from
all others, don't get invalidated if it does not work out the way
the
book says. Dennis was not all knowing, aand infallible - far from
it,
though perhaps he could be classified as a minor genius, rather
lopsided.
>
> Someone mentioned a major cog connected to trom level 3 (I think)
was
> that all past scenes were actually created in the present . . .
> therefore there is no such thing as a past scene. . . 'BoomShankar!
Time
> is broken! (Thanks for the info.)
He dictated (because he was nearly blind) a very long winded article
about this, which I may some day dig up. But it really does not say
more
than the very mundane scientology "conclusion" that one can
mock up
(create in present time) any incident/scene, that occurred anywhere
and
at any time, regardless of whether you were there at the time. He
worded
it (over dramatically, that you could time break something in a
grocers
shop, and then see into his back room, where you had never been.
Great
drama (the way he put it), which to my mind was just cheap CofS type
salesmanship, drawing attention to OT powers which in a world of non
OTs
was merely a peace of circus trickery, attracting the less
thoughtfull
(My areønt I cynical today).
Doing so, however, would probably violate all the reasons you
postulated
for being here, so you would not do it. And here, the totally free
ends
.. go and buy yourself some L Ron Hubbard books, including something
dealing with Games theory and postulates, and the nature of a being
to
learn more about that
>
> Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat too
simplistic
> (remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to a
relaxation
> exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into others and
then
> inhales receiving happiness from others.
simplistic sounds good.
>
> Call me a flake but this makes me feel better (change?). So I use
it.
Flake (World Book Dictionary): 4. US slang a very uncoventional or
eccentric person. 5. US slang an arrest to meet a quota or satisfy
pressure for police action.
(remember we trommers include stoopid Australians and Englishmen :-)
)
>
> yours
>
> E.K. Beitzel
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy)
Subject:
Re: FW: EKB-03
Date:
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:58:41 -0500
(EST)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
CC:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>,
[email protected],
trom
<[email protected]>
Y'all can have a free trom web page on lightlink.
Homer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith News, Web, Telnet Art
Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 E-mail, FTP,
Shell Internet Access, Ithaca NY
[email protected] [email protected]
http://www.lightlink.com
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Antony Phillips wrote:
> Merritt, John S wrote:
> >
> > FW: from E.K Beitzel
> > Subject: EKB-03
>
> Mmm.
>
>
> > Date: Tuesday, 25 November 1997 3:31PM
> >
> > Hello Tromsters,
> >
> > Currently I don't subscribe to IVy but I've read enough
articles from
> > the Lightlink Archives pertaining to TROM and related subjects
to help
> > me on my way.
>
> As editor of IVy, I try to include articles on TROM to help promote
it,
> to remind readers that there _is_ this practically free self help
method
> which they can use or reccomend to their friends. Since one of
TROM's
> advantages is that it is virtually free one should not need an
IVy
> subscription to help run it.
>
> In fact, TROM ought to have its own Home Page, where TROM itself
could
> be downloaded, all articles relating to TROM were available, and
the
> existence of TROM-l proclaimed. I don't think we lack the
possibility of
> a free web site. We do, apparently (and appearances can be
deceptive
> :-) ) lack people to do the dog work.
> I am willing to continue as trom-l administrator, but not anything
else.
>
>
> >
> > I wonder though DOES READING ABOUT END PHENOMENA SPOIL THE
PROCESS?
>
> No. But it does depend on your intentions in running TROM.
>
> My expereince of the Church of scientology suggests that all too
often
> peoples intentions in running processes was to achieve status. The
worst
> example I ran across was when I was flown into the sea Org
Advanced
> Organisation in Alicante (Spain) at Easter 1968. Sea Org members got
all
> their levels free, and when we arrived the big news was that one Sea
org
> member, that day, had attested to Clear, OT 1, OT2, OT3, OT4, and
OT5.
> OT6 was the highest level,then, I think, and the fellow was
unhappy
> becasue Qual had shut before he could attest to OT6.
>
> That may seem unbelieveable, but it is true, and perhaps might give
a
> better idea as to why Scientology has gone the way it has - to
some
> degree Scn was lurching along from one extreme to another. And at
Saint
> Hill, England, where I worked, my impression was that to some it was
as
> important to have a high position on the org board (status) as to do
a
> good, usefull job of work. (There was a deal of enthusiasm
there,
> though, very enjoyable)
>
> Against that background, perhaps you can see why the idea of it
being
> dangerous to tell the pc the end phenomenon arose (which Dennis may
have
> perpetrated, I don't remember - but many have perpetrated).
>
> Earlier, it was something of a sin to run a pc on a process
without
> giving him some idea what it was all about - called an R
(reality)
> factor.
>
> So if you know the (supposed) end phenomona, and do the process
honestly
> I can not see any harm. But since you are an individual, different
from
> all others, don't get invalidated if it does not work out the way
the
> book says. Dennis was not all knowing, aand infallible - far
from it,
> though perhaps he could be classified as a minor genius, rather
> lopsided.
>
>
> >
> > Someone mentioned a major cog connected to trom level 3 (I
think) was
> > that all past scenes were actually created in the present . .
.
> > therefore there is no such thing as a past scene. . .
'BoomShankar! Time
> > is broken! (Thanks for the info.)
>
> He dictated (because he was nearly blind) a very long winded
article
> about this, which I may some day dig up. But it really does not say
more
> than the very mundane scientology "conclusion" that one
can mock up
> (create in present time) any incident/scene, that occurred anywhere
and
> at any time, regardless of whether you were there at the time. He
worded
> it (over dramatically, that you could time break something in a
grocers
> shop, and then see into his back room, where you had never been.
Great
> drama (the way he put it), which to my mind was just cheap CofS
type
> salesmanship, drawing attention to OT powers which in a world of non
OTs
> was merely a peace of circus trickery, attracting the less
thoughtfull
> (My areønt I cynical today).
>
> Doing so, however, would probably violate all the reasons you
postulated
> for being here, so you would not do it. And here, the totally free
ends
> .. go and buy yourself some L Ron Hubbard books, including
something
> dealing with Games theory and postulates, and the nature of a being
to
> learn more about that
>
> >
> > Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat too
simplistic
> > (remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to a
relaxation
> > exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into others
and then
> > inhales receiving happiness from others.
>
> simplistic sounds good.
>
>
>
> >
> > Call me a flake but this makes me feel better (change?). So I
use it.
>
> Flake (World Book Dictionary): 4. US slang a very uncoventional
or
> eccentric person. 5. US slang an arrest to meet a quota or
satisfy
> pressure for police action.
>
> (remember we trommers include stoopid Australians and
Englishmen :-)
> )
> >
> > yours
> >
> > E.K. Beitzel
>
> --
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
> Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy)
>
>
>
Subject:
Re: FW: EKB-03
Date:
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:58:41 -0500
(EST)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Antony Phillips
<[email protected]>
CC:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>,
[email protected],
trom
<[email protected]>
Y'all can have a free trom web page on lightlink.
Homer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith News, Web, Telnet Art
Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 E-mail, FTP,
Shell Internet Access, Ithaca NY
[email protected] [email protected]
http://www.lightlink.com
On Wed, 26 Nov 1997, Antony Phillips wrote:
> Merritt, John S wrote:
> >
> > FW: from E.K Beitzel
> > Subject: EKB-03
>
> Mmm.
>
>
> > Date: Tuesday, 25 November 1997 3:31PM
> >
> > Hello Tromsters,
> >
> > Currently I don't subscribe to IVy but I've read enough
articles from
> > the Lightlink Archives pertaining to TROM and related subjects
to help
> > me on my way.
>
> As editor of IVy, I try to include articles on TROM to help promote
it,
> to remind readers that there _is_ this practically free self help
method
> which they can use or reccomend to their friends. Since one of
TROM's
> advantages is that it is virtually free one should not need an
IVy
> subscription to help run it.
>
> In fact, TROM ought to have its own Home Page, where TROM itself
could
> be downloaded, all articles relating to TROM were available, and
the
> existence of TROM-l proclaimed. I don't think we lack the
possibility of
> a free web site. We do, apparently (and appearances can be
deceptive
> :-) ) lack people to do the dog work.
> I am willing to continue as trom-l administrator, but not anything
else.
>
>
> >
> > I wonder though DOES READING ABOUT END PHENOMENA SPOIL THE
PROCESS?
>
> No. But it does depend on your intentions in running TROM.
>
> My expereince of the Church of scientology suggests that all too
often
> peoples intentions in running processes was to achieve status. The
worst
> example I ran across was when I was flown into the sea Org
Advanced
> Organisation in Alicante (Spain) at Easter 1968. Sea Org members got
all
> their levels free, and when we arrived the big news was that one Sea
org
> member, that day, had attested to Clear, OT 1, OT2, OT3, OT4, and
OT5.
> OT6 was the highest level,then, I think, and the fellow was
unhappy
> becasue Qual had shut before he could attest to OT6.
>
> That may seem unbelieveable, but it is true, and perhaps might give
a
> better idea as to why Scientology has gone the way it has - to
some
> degree Scn was lurching along from one extreme to another. And at
Saint
> Hill, England, where I worked, my impression was that to some it was
as
> important to have a high position on the org board (status) as to do
a
> good, usefull job of work. (There was a deal of enthusiasm
there,
> though, very enjoyable)
>
> Against that background, perhaps you can see why the idea of it
being
> dangerous to tell the pc the end phenomenon arose (which Dennis may
have
> perpetrated, I don't remember - but many have perpetrated).
>
> Earlier, it was something of a sin to run a pc on a process
without
> giving him some idea what it was all about - called an R
(reality)
> factor.
>
> So if you know the (supposed) end phenomona, and do the process
honestly
> I can not see any harm. But since you are an individual, different
from
> all others, don't get invalidated if it does not work out the way
the
> book says. Dennis was not all knowing, aand infallible - far
from it,
> though perhaps he could be classified as a minor genius, rather
> lopsided.
>
>
> >
> > Someone mentioned a major cog connected to trom level 3 (I
think) was
> > that all past scenes were actually created in the present . .
.
> > therefore there is no such thing as a past scene. . .
'BoomShankar! Time
> > is broken! (Thanks for the info.)
>
> He dictated (because he was nearly blind) a very long winded
article
> about this, which I may some day dig up. But it really does not say
more
> than the very mundane scientology "conclusion" that one
can mock up
> (create in present time) any incident/scene, that occurred anywhere
and
> at any time, regardless of whether you were there at the time. He
worded
> it (over dramatically, that you could time break something in a
grocers
> shop, and then see into his back room, where you had never been.
Great
> drama (the way he put it), which to my mind was just cheap CofS
type
> salesmanship, drawing attention to OT powers which in a world of non
OTs
> was merely a peace of circus trickery, attracting the less
thoughtfull
> (My areønt I cynical today).
>
> Doing so, however, would probably violate all the reasons you
postulated
> for being here, so you would not do it. And here, the totally free
ends
> .. go and buy yourself some L Ron Hubbard books, including
something
> dealing with Games theory and postulates, and the nature of a being
to
> learn more about that
>
> >
> > Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat too
simplistic
> > (remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to a
relaxation
> > exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into others
and then
> > inhales receiving happiness from others.
>
> simplistic sounds good.
>
>
>
> >
> > Call me a flake but this makes me feel better (change?). So I
use it.
>
> Flake (World Book Dictionary): 4. US slang a very uncoventional
or
> eccentric person. 5. US slang an arrest to meet a quota or
satisfy
> pressure for police action.
>
> (remember we trommers include stoopid Australians and
Englishmen :-)
> )
> >
> > yours
> >
> > E.K. Beitzel
>
> --
>
Ant
Antony A Phillips
> [email protected]
>
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
>
Box 78
>
DK - 2800 Lyngby
> Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy)
>
>
>
Subject:
FW: FW: EKB-03
Date:
Thu, 27 Nov 1997 14:38:00
+1000
From:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>
To:
trom
<[email protected]>
Elmer writes:
----------
From: E.K. Bietzel
To: Merritt, John S
Subject: RE: FW: EKB-03
Date: Thursday, 27 November 1997 3:51PM
Hello, Hi, Good Morning - ELmer speaking,
>
>
> > I wonder though DOES READING ABOUT END PHENOMENA SPOIL
THE
PROCESS?
>
> No. But it does depend on your intentions in running
TROM.
>
My intentions are to stabilise the flashes of clarity and
brilliance I've had. As to OT abilities, I'm sure we all
have them and they need to be drilled until they're under
control and no longer deniable. (I'm not sure TROM does
this.)
>
> My expereince of the Church of scientology suggests that all
too
often
> peoples intentions in running processes was to achieve
status. The
worst
> example I ran across was when I was flown into the sea Org
Advanced
> Organisation in Alicante (Spain) at Easter 1968. Sea Org
members
got all
> their levels free, and when we arrived the big news was that
one
Sea org
> member, that day, had attested to Clear, OT 1, OT2, OT3, OT4,
and
OT5.
> OT6 was the highest level,then, I think, and the fellow was
unhappy
> becasue Qual had shut before he could attest to OT6.
>
My experience with the Church of Scientology is an old
drafty building that should be condemned. It's roof leaks
and the furniture is all broken. I wouldn't dare to step
foot in there for fear of vampires.
>
>
> >
> Doing so, however, would probably violate all the reasons
you
postulated
> for being here, so you would not do it. And here, the totally
free
ends
> . go and buy yourself some L Ron Hubbard books,
including
something
> dealing with Games theory and postulates, and the nature of a
being
to
> learn more about that
>
Since becoming a Tromster I've pick up and read the following:-
Finite & Infinite Games - Carse
Handbook for Preclears - Hubbard
Creation of Human Ability - Hubbard
The Pheonix Lectures - Hubbard
Excalibur Revisited - Filbert
The Nature of Personal Reality - Roberts (Seth)
> >
> > Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat
too
simplistic
> > (remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to
a
relaxation
> > exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into
others and
then
> > inhales receiving happiness from others.
>
> simplistic sounds good.
>
> >
> > Call me a flake but this makes me feel better (change?).
So I use
it.
>
> Flake (World Book Dictionary): 4. US slang a very
uncoventional or
> eccentric person. 5. US slang an arrest to meet a quota or
satisfy
> pressure for police action.
>
> (remember we trommers include stoopid Australians and
Englishmen
:-)
> )
>
WHAT!?! Seems like theres a widespread fixation on
word-scrutinisation
here. I hope the MEANING is still getting through!
> > yours
> >
> > E.K. Beitzel
>
>
Subject:
Home
Page site Offer
Date:
Thu,
27 Nov 1997 05:50:23 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
[email protected]
CC:
[email protected]
PASTE fro Homers despatch:
CC:
"Merritt, John S"
<[email protected]>,
[email protected],
trom
<[email protected]>
Y'all can have a free trom web page on lightlink.
Homer
END PASTE
That is fantastic.
Now we need a volunteer or two to do following actions:
A) design and place the Home Page.
B) Seek for getting links to the Home Page
C) maintain the Home Page.
I don't think it would have to be a flashy Home Page. Perhaps better
not. Perhaps should state that it a voluntary action, and that no one
on
the TROM lines makes money from it.
Over to you.
Hi,
Ant
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy)
Subject:
trom.org
Date:
Thu, 27 Nov 1997 01:44:52 -0500
(EST)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Trom-L List
<[email protected]>
I am also willing to host trom.org, but not pay for the
internic fees (legal reasons). So if anyone wants
to fill out a domain reg form for it, go to it.
http://www.lightlink.com/whois.html
Homer
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homer Wilson Smith News, Web, Telnet Art
Matrix - Lightlink
(607) 277-0959 E-mail, FTP,
Shell Internet Access, Ithaca NY
[email protected] [email protected]
http://www.lightlink.com
Subject:
Re: trom
Date:
Thu, 27 Nov 1997 15:49:18 -0500
(EST)
From:
"Homer W. Smith"
<[email protected]>
To:
Multiple recipients of list
<[email protected]>
> I've heard TROM referred to but have never seen the materials. Is
this stuff
on
> the net?
Not yet, but it will be shortly.
My write up of it is at the archives
http://www.clearing.org
Hit on archive, then on homer
act70.memo through act77.memo
Subject:
Re:
FW: FW: EKB-03
Date:
Fri,
28 Nov 1997 07:23:39 +0100
From:
Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization:
International Viewpoints
To:
"Merritt, John S" <[email protected]>
CC:
trom
<[email protected]>
References:
1
Merritt, John S wrote:
A lot cut out.
> My experience with the Church of Scientology is an old
> drafty building that should be condemned. It's roof leaks
> and the furniture is all broken. I wouldn't dare to step
> foot in there for fear of vampires.
Yes, food for thought for me - in a sense, with out going into wild
enthusiasm, despite hardships and invals, Scientology is the best
thing
that has happened to me. But I am more an more painfully aware that
for
the most Scientology is as case of aasking for bread and being given
a
stone. And that when the most marvelous cake was available. Stones
in
all shapes and sizes and mud was handed out. I know it is off the
subject of TROM - kyet I have the feeling that TROM also hasa a few
sour
curves in it.
Your book list included/was:
> Finite & Infinite Games - Carse
> Handbook for Preclears - Hubbard
> Creation of Human Ability - Hubbard
> The Pheonix Lectures - Hubbard
> Excalibur Revisited - Filbert
> The Nature of Personal Reality - Roberts (Seth)
Looks good, especially the first, which I have not read, but have
heard
of. There is a Philedelpia Doctorate Tape on Games, which gives good
food for thought. (I beleive there are some things Ron has emmitted
which one can build a usefull philosphy on)
> WHAT!?! Seems like theres a widespread fixation on
word-scrutinisation
> here. I hope the MEANING is still getting through!
Yes - keep at it. Let Internet words be your winged messenger round
the
world. And let them provoking usefull thought and meditation in
others.
Hi,
Ant
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy)
Subject:
Re: FW: FW: EKB-03
Date:
Fri, 28 Nov 1997 22:25:38
-0500
From:
"Dustin W. Carr"
<[email protected]>
To:
[email protected]
Hi Elmer and other trom-types,
>Hello, Hi, Good Morning - ELmer speaking,
> >
> >
> > > I wonder though DOES READING ABOUT END
PHENOMENA SPOIL THE
>PROCESS?
> >
No. But you should avoid comparing what you are feeling to someone
else's
opinion of what the EP should be. As long as you have the intention
to
improve, and as long as you are producing change, then all changes will
be
for the better.
> > No. But it does depend on your intentions in
running TROM.
> >
>My intentions are to stabilise the flashes of clarity and
>brilliance I've had. As to OT abilities, I'm sure we all
>have them and they need to be drilled until they're under
>control and no longer deniable. (I'm not sure TROM does
> this.)
That is good that you have the certainty of the OT abilities we all
have.
Beware of "drilling" things that merely appear to be desirable
abilities.
The human brain is very capable of producing illusions that some might
call
OT abilities.
"The supreme test of a thetan is his ability to make things go
right" (HCOPL
19.8.67) You are welcome to define what is right. If someone is
experiencing "OT abilities" and still failing at making things
go right,
then they need to reevaluate things.(Wow! first time I pulled out my
staff
volume 0 in years to get that quote. Alot of good stuff in there, alot
more
not so good.)
This also means that OT is not a state that is achieved, it is a
continuous
action. It is a way of creating and of observing. Lao Tzu has some
good
things to say on that.
As for stabilizing your flashes of clarity, the only way to truly do that
is
to continue. Continue along a path that you believe in. As long as
you
believe in the path, it may take you to where you wish to go. It is
your
will that determines how you transcend, how you achieve that for which
you
seek. So as long as you proceed with steadfastness and singleness of
heart
and purpose, you will climb on and and up. Failure can only occur if
you
stop.
Continue to communicate, as you have. Let understanding ears here of
the
progress you are making. Recreating your own flashes of clarity and
passing
them onto others serves to make your progress more real to yourself
and
others. When you come upon barriers, seek the advice of others.
And as you progress, cast your flashes of brilliance out into your
own
world. Make your life better. Improve conditions in your life and in
those
around you. Do this with intention and action.
> >
>My experience with the Church of Scientology is an old
>drafty building that should be condemned. It's roof leaks
>and the furniture is all broken. I wouldn't dare to step
>foot in there for fear of vampires.
> >
Sounds familiar :-). This wasn't in Austin, Texas was it?
> >
>Since becoming a Tromster I've pick up and read the following:-
>
>Finite & Infinite Games - Carse
>Handbook for Preclears - Hubbard
>Creation of Human Ability - Hubbard
>The Pheonix Lectures - Hubbard
>Excalibur Revisited - Filbert
>The Nature of Personal Reality - Roberts (Seth)
>
I have read all but one of these, and the first is the most brilliant
and
the most useful, in my opinion.
>> >
>>> Also the wording of level one (RI) I found somewhat too
simplistic
>>> (remember I'm non-scieno). Eventually I married it to a
relaxation
>>> exercise where one exhales and puts out happiness into
others and then
>>> inhales receiving happiness from others.
This is very similar to what I do, and it is a very good way to do
things
if you feel it is working for you.
Dustin
>
> > > yours
> > >
> > > E.K. Beitzel
> >
> >
>
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
--
Ant
Antony A Phillips
[email protected]
tlf: (+45) 45 88 88 69
Box 78
DK - 2800 Lyngby
Editor, International Viewpoints (= IVy). See Home Page:
http://home8.inet.tele.dk/ivy/
Administrator: trom-l, selfclearing-l, superscio-l,
previous-life-scio and IVy lists
***************
Replies, comments, to the list, send to [email protected]
***************
-- ( in 2016:]
Antony A Phillips [email protected]
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TROM mailing list
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