[TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2 - (TROM Digest, Vol 142, Issue 9)

[The Resolution of Mind list]

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The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
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Dear Vorb,
I've checked back what you've posted in March 2016 to get some
additional data. Your post was titled "Suffering on Level Two for 100  
Hours".
That account of yours reflected a deep frustration with your
experience with TROM up to that time - and you expressed that explicitly
at the end of your extensive write-up.

You still seem to have similar troubles in your endeavor into resolving
your mind as about a half year ago. But I could hardly believe that the
March 2016 post and the recent one had been written by the same person.

The position of a person on the tone scale - no matter if acute or chronic  
-
reflects in the person's outgoing communication. Now, your recent comm.
sounds to me a lot more optimistic and much less frustrated - even with
a tinge of self-ironic humor. Well, that does not at all sound like bad
indicators or a non-improvement case-wise to me. The persistence and  
stamina
you muster up would not fit into the picture of a desperate person too.

I understand that you're doing one-hour sessions typically. That seems to  
be
a reasonable time span. Never the less keep in mind that the session time  
should not be
determined by the clock but rather shall depend on how long it takes to  
come
to a good point or a point where the activity no longer produces change.
In that regard a session may take a few minutes up to several hours.
If you stop too early always, you never push through to the other side,
so to speak, and at the next session you have to start the cycle all
over again almost from the beginning. Frustrating, isn't it.
Have you ever tried to get beyond the point of excessive yawning?

Yawning is not bad of course; it can indicate charge releasing.

If you loose interest in a process it may have been run beyond a flat
point or there was no charge targeted by it at all right from the  
beginning.
Of course one must be honest in assigning 'disinterest' to a certain  
activity
and not use it as an excuse to dodge that activity.

A run beyond a win, flat or good point can be remedied by rehabilitating  
that
point. Scan through your session and look if you find such a overrun point
and acknowledge that to yourself.
Remedying havingness by any process intended for that purpose, including
MEST-work can be of help here. (I would like to rename RI from "Repair of
Importance" to "Remedy of Importance" - it's more to the point, I think.)

Your question:
"Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on
timebreaking a random stranger ???
There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning ???"

The question is legitimate of course. But, it is useless to try to apply
analytical logic to contents of the Reactive Mind (RM).
You know the RM works on the basis of A=A=A (association).
There might be no charge on a 'random stranger' itself but may be the RM
associates it with any other charged content. Or the restimulation is due  
to
"going back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw on
the street in the morning." - I do not say that this is the case; this are
only examples to point out how illogically the RM acts.

Your description of TA behavior supports the impression that an Overrun
(please see the definition and quote of LRH below for your reference)
occurred - may be not only in some of your sessions - but that the whole
of TROM Level 2 has flattened-out for you (at least for the time being).
(Since high or low TA can have many different reasons the above does not
establish a fact of course. I assume that you're familiar enough with an
E-Meter that you can rule out the effects of sweaty hands or a involuntary
tightening (-> lower TA) or loosening (-> higher TA) on the cans as  
influencing
factors here).

Perhaps you try without the E-meter. May be it draws too much attention
because you get worried about the TA?

I said purposely "at least for the time being" in the above paragraph  
because
those things having flattened out may become auditable again later, when  
in the
meantime other processing had been done. So you could go on immediately to
the next levels of TROM up to L5 and just see what happens. Three  
possibilies:
a) You're doing fine and progress,
b) nothing happens,
c) you start to run into severe troubles,
d) you progress for a while along that line and then run into difficulties  
of one
   kind or other.

In case:
a) Continue along that line.
b) That can mean, the level is far beyond your current case state.
   Drop back to a lower level with the appropriate gradient.
c) You should *immediately* drop back to a lower level.
   You can always drop back to a lower level. Bail out yourself with
   thoroughly running havingness. Let the situation calm down, then go on.
d) Again you drop back now to the lower level. You may see that this level  
-
   which has ceased to produce change previously - now delivers new  
accessible
   material to be handled.

Recommended study:
(Re)read the Purposes and End Results of each level. You need not dig  
through
the whole TROM-materials to do this; Judith Anderson has written a good  
summary
of the whole procedure and all levels in a nutshell.

I hope very much that this may be of some help for you.
Your willpower sure is admirable.

Best wishes

Robin

---

References:

Tech. Dict.:
"OVERRUN, 1. an overrun means doing something too long that has engrams
connected with it which means an engram chain with too many engrams on it
being restimulated by life or auditing. Hence overrun. If this overrun  
persisted
unhandled eventually the pc would be overwhelmed and one in theory, would
have a low TA. (HCOB 16 Jun 70) 2 . gone on too long or happened too often.
(HCOB 3 Jun 71) 3 . means the pc came out of the bank and the pc went back
into it again. (Class VIII, No. 2) 4 . continuing a process past the  
optimum point.
(Abil 218) 5 . running past a free, floating needle on any type of process.
(HCOB 2 Aug 65)

---

HCOB    8 June 1970      Low TA Handling


      HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex

       HCO BULLETIN OF 8 JUNE 1970

Remimeo


             LOW TA HANDLING


A person whose TA is low is in a state of overwhelm.

Poor TRs or rough auditing easily drive the TA down.

A TA can go low during a run like on engrams, and can come back
up when actual erasure occurs.

Usually a person whose TA goes below 2.0 when run on incidents
too steep for him will get low TA.

A low TA is of course any TA below 2.0.

An occasional cause of this is as simple as the meter not being
trimmed.

Sweaty hands, improper electrodes and sometimes a faulty meter
also cause a "low TA" to appear.

Heavy processes like LX 1-2-3 are sometimes an overwhelm.

An invalidative look on an Examiner's face can drive a TA down a
bit. Cold cans can send it UP high. Lack of rest or time of the
day gives some cases a low or high TA. At 2:00 A.M. TAs often are
very high, for instance.

Persons with low TAs tend to be somewhat inactive in life and
noncausative.

When audited with poor TRs or on processes too steep, some
persons' TAs go low (below 2.0).

An F/N is NEVER an F/N when above 3.0 or below 2.0.

Life repairs and auditing repairs, light processes and no-goof
auditing are the proper actions for low TA cases.

Auditors whose pcs' TAs go low should look to the flawlessness of
their auditing, the ease of their TRs and refuse any heavy
overwhelm-type C/Ses for such pcs.

Good two-way comm on troubling subjects, use of prepared lists on
life, mild close-to Objective Processes, no forcing over
protests, never running processes that don't read first, getting
the pc out of being effect and toward being cause, extroverting
the pc's attention with Objective Processes, all work well on low
TA cases.

The actual technical reason for low TAs is found in higher levels
and does not concern and would be of no use to lower-level pcs.

Take it easy. Don't goof as auditor or C/S are the keynotes of
low TA cases.

My opinion on this is that people worry too much about low TAs.

On Flag where auditing is done like silk, we haven't seen any low
TAs for ages.


L. RON HUBBARD


---------------



On Tue, 30 Aug 2016 18:53:33 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. 150 hours on Level 2 (The Resolution of Mind list)
   2. Re: 150 hours on Level 2 (The Resolution of Mind list)
   3. Re: 150 hours on Level 2 (The Resolution of Mind list)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 14:45:57 +0200
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
To: trom@lists.newciv.org
Subject: [TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2
Message-ID: <mailman.32200.1472561115.1234.t...@lists.newciv.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Trommers,

I just hit 150 hours on level 2 the last week, so I thought I summarize  
my
experiences.
Here you can find my previous write up: http://lists.newciv.org/
pipermail/trom/2016-March/005194.html
My Goal for this year is to reach 100 hours with TROM (200 hours
altogether), most probably I
will do all of it on level 2. I'm a bit behind schedule (it's almost
September now,
and still have 50 more hours to go), but I have much more free time now,  
so
I hope I will be able to do it.

I still do 1 hour sessions, try to do one every day. Still spend about  
90%
of my session time yawning and
cleaning my nose (the excessive yawning causes my nose to run). I had  
zero
wins, just endless suffering, but
hey that's just fine, I'm masochistic.

Previously I always had trouble to find events that produce change (=
yawning in my case), now it is very easy.
I just go back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw on
the street in the morning,
and that gives me somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes of yawning. Then  
when
the yawning is gone, run RI
then I pull out the level 4 list (Robin's advice on my previous email,
thanks), and just try to use the chart
to find another event, that I can run out. It usually runs out faster  
than
the not charged morning event.
Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on
timebreaking a random stranger ???
There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning ???

I run RI as per the book. RI had never had much effect on me. I run it,  
it
gets very very boring within a few
minutes. I know this not because I feel bored, but because my attention
wanders away, I continue RI, attention
wanders again, and after I few minutes I just give up on RI, and do the
timebreaking or finish the session.

E-meter wise I usually start with a tone arm between 4.5 and 3.5. It goes
down to 3 in a few minutes,
and after about 20 minutes it reaches 2. Sometimes I go down to 1.6 which
is very low, and I know, I shouldn't
go below 2. Sometimes I tried to run RI for 15 minutes to move the tone  
arm
back. After 15 minutes I can
push back the tone arm to 2.5 or 3.5, but that doesn't help much, a few
minutes of timebreaking and I loose it
all again, so I don't do that any more.

My biggest problem is still motivation. I have no wins at all. No
realizations. No Cognitions.
Just yawning and suffering. So every session must start from brute force
willpower.
If I would have just a little gain, the whole process would carry on  
itself.

Any advice for you guys?

Thanks, Vorb
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:52:52 -0700
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
To: trom@lists.newciv.org
Subject: Re: [TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2
Message-ID: <mailman.32386.1472575931.1234.t...@lists.newciv.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Vorb
  My first impression is that your over running the processes.

I use RI to move the focus of my attention off my reactive mind and put  
it on something I just created.
If I am obsessing over some incident in life I stop that and do RI to  
focus my attention on something that I feel is important that I just  
created. This brings my attention into present time and takes it off my  
mind.

If you are not bringing up incidents in your mind by looking at non  
significant incidents or people then it is time to move onto level 5.
Start working out what is happening at each level of the Postulate  
Failure chart till you have it memorized and can see how the game  
postulates are in conflict at each level and how they change when you  
move up or down one level.

Thoroughly understanding the level 5 chart took me many hours of study.   
I drew the chart out in pencil on a large piece of paper several times.  
Then redrew it in abbreviated form several times till I could see the  
progression of changing postulates for self and other and know what had  
to come next in the progression.  I could almost draw up the chart from  
memory because I understood what was changing from level to level.

Once you have that down start putting up the games as Dennis recommends  
and looking for incidents in your past that fit the game you are looking  
for.  Timebreak what shows up.

With this work you should start finding some incidents to run and start  
recognizing the games that are being played out by people and government  
and banks and police.  Every time you look at a news story about police  
shutting down a kids lemonade stand or EU government fining Apple  
Computer $15 billion for avoiding paying taxes you will see the games  
being played by both parties.

This is the process of becoming a games master. You go from a broken  
piece in the games to a game player to a game master who no longer needs  
to play any game and can help others who are having trouble to win at  
their games.

Along the way you will find the games you are compulsively playing and  
the games you are compulsively avoiding. Get the charge off these and  
you are free to not play any games.

Good Luck

Pete McLaughlin



Sent from my iPad

On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:45 AM, The Resolution of Mind list  
<trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote:

*************
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
************
Hi Trommers,

I just hit 150 hours on level 2 the last week, so I thought I summarize  
my experiences.
Here you can find my previous write up:  
http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/2016-March/005194.html
My Goal for this year is to reach 100 hours with TROM (200 hours  
altogether), most probably I
will do all of it on level 2. I'm a bit behind schedule (it's almost  
September now,
and still have 50 more hours to go), but I have much more free time  
now, so I hope I will be able to do it.

I still do 1 hour sessions, try to do one every day. Still spend about  
90% of my session time yawning and
cleaning my nose (the excessive yawning causes my nose to run). I had  
zero wins, just endless suffering, but
hey that's just fine, I'm masochistic.

Previously I always had trouble to find events that produce change (=  
yawning in my case), now it is very easy.
I just go back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw  
on the street in the morning,
and that gives me somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes of yawning. Then  
when the yawning is gone, run RI
then I pull out the level 4 list (Robin's advice on my previous email,  
thanks), and just try to use the chart
to find another event, that I can run out. It usually runs out faster  
than the not charged morning event.
Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on  
timebreaking a random stranger ???
There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning  
???

I run RI as per the book. RI had never had much effect on me. I run it,  
it gets very very boring within a few
minutes. I know this not because I feel bored, but because my attention  
wanders away, I continue RI, attention
wanders again, and after I few minutes I just give up on RI, and do the  
timebreaking or finish the session.

E-meter wise I usually start with a tone arm between 4.5 and 3.5. It  
goes down to 3 in a few minutes,
and after about 20 minutes it reaches 2. Sometimes I go down to 1.6  
which is very low, and I know, I shouldn't
go below 2. Sometimes I tried to run RI for 15 minutes to move the tone  
arm back. After 15 minutes I can
push back the tone arm to 2.5 or 3.5, but that doesn't help much, a few  
minutes of timebreaking and I loose it
all again, so I don't do that any more.

My biggest problem is still motivation. I have no wins at all. No  
realizations. No Cognitions.
Just yawning and suffering. So every session must start from brute  
force willpower.
If I would have just a little gain, the whole process would carry on  
itself.

Any advice for you guys?

Thanks, Vorb



_______________________________________________
TROM mailing list
TROM@lists.newciv.org
http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 09:54:14 -0700
From: The Resolution of Mind  list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
To: trom@lists.newciv.org
Subject: Re: [TROM1] 150 hours on Level 2
Message-ID: <mailman.32387.1472576013.1234.t...@lists.newciv.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

By the way.

Well done on persisting on a difficult course of action.  You obviously  
have what it takes to succeed with TROM.
Keep up the good work.

Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 30, 2016, at 5:45 AM, The Resolution of Mind list  
<trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote:

*************
The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
************
Hi Trommers,

I just hit 150 hours on level 2 the last week, so I thought I summarize  
my experiences.
Here you can find my previous write up:  
http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/2016-March/005194.html
My Goal for this year is to reach 100 hours with TROM (200 hours  
altogether), most probably I
will do all of it on level 2. I'm a bit behind schedule (it's almost  
September now,
and still have 50 more hours to go), but I have much more free time  
now, so I hope I will be able to do it.

I still do 1 hour sessions, try to do one every day. Still spend about  
90% of my session time yawning and
cleaning my nose (the excessive yawning causes my nose to run). I had  
zero wins, just endless suffering, but
hey that's just fine, I'm masochistic.

Previously I always had trouble to find events that produce change (=  
yawning in my case), now it is very easy.
I just go back in the morning and select a total random stranger I saw  
on the street in the morning,
and that gives me somewhere between 30 to 60 minutes of yawning. Then  
when the yawning is gone, run RI
then I pull out the level 4 list (Robin's advice on my previous email,  
thanks), and just try to use the chart
to find another event, that I can run out. It usually runs out faster  
than the not charged morning event.
Can somebody tell me why the hell am I yawning for 30 minutes on  
timebreaking a random stranger ???
There can be zero charge on an event like this, then why am I yawning  
???

I run RI as per the book. RI had never had much effect on me. I run it,  
it gets very very boring within a few
minutes. I know this not because I feel bored, but because my attention  
wanders away, I continue RI, attention
wanders again, and after I few minutes I just give up on RI, and do the  
timebreaking or finish the session.

E-meter wise I usually start with a tone arm between 4.5 and 3.5. It  
goes down to 3 in a few minutes,
and after about 20 minutes it reaches 2. Sometimes I go down to 1.6  
which is very low, and I know, I shouldn't
go below 2. Sometimes I tried to run RI for 15 minutes to move the tone  
arm back. After 15 minutes I can
push back the tone arm to 2.5 or 3.5, but that doesn't help much, a few  
minutes of timebreaking and I loose it
all again, so I don't do that any more.

My biggest problem is still motivation. I have no wins at all. No  
realizations. No Cognitions.
Just yawning and suffering. So every session must start from brute  
force willpower.
If I would have just a little gain, the whole process would carry on  
itself.

Any advice for you guys?

Thanks, Vorb



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End of TROM Digest, Vol 142, Issue 9
************************************
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