*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Sent*Saturday fifth of November 2016*
by *[email protected]* <mailto:[email protected]>
(Antony Phillips)
Replay B59 and B59A
We are back in 1998,
see what Trommers where saying then!
Note that this is a resend of a message sent some years ago, and some
data (like addresses)is liable to be inaccurate.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [trom-L] Replay B59 and B59A
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
************
Previously sent: Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 14:35:23 +0200
and Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:15:22 +0100
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 09:07:37 -0500 (EST)
From: Roy Eugene Vinner <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
X-Sender: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: TROM without prior Scientology auditing
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Hello all,
I got a TROM file from a friend about four years ago. I immediately was
turned off by its do-it-yourself style but later I reconsidered my
decision and did a lot of work on levels 1, and 2 and 3-- I often worked
simultaneously on the last two levels disregarding the stipulation that
level 2 should be a prerequisite to level 3. Despite my copious effort I
could not finish level 3 due to overrestimulation. I then received plenty
of Scientology auditing which obviated the need to continue with the
level.
I wonder whether anyone has reached level 4 or 5 _without_ any prior
Scientology auditing as TROM suggests. If so, please, reply to the list.
Roy
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 07:46:32 -0700
From: "MICHAEL W. BONNYCASTLE" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-LAWE (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Roy Eugene Vinner <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
CC: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: TROM without prior Scientology auditing
Roy Eugene Vinner wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I got a TROM file from a friend about four years ago. I immediately was
> turned off by its do-it-yourself stile but later I reconsidered my
...snip...
> I wonder whether anyone has reached level 4 or 5 _without_ any prior
> Scientology auditing as TROM suggests. If so, please, reply to the list.
>
> Roy
Hello Roy,
I have been through levels 4 and 5 without any prior scientology auditing.
Although I had been on staff for six months prior to this and absorbed
all the
auditing theory I could regarding the tech and was very anxious to
receive auditing,
I did not get any. I did run the Self-Analysis book by LRH on myself
before finding
Trom until it seemed flat also an early process LRH had put out called
'Six Steps to
Better Beingness'. Compared to Trom, these were very inconsequential.
It's been
said before and I'm inclimed to agree that the first four levels are
really a preparation
for level 5, where I spent the most time and gained ten-fold over the
first four.
Michael Bonnycastle
***********************************
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 06:19:10 +0100
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Organization: International Viewpoints
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: TROM: Replay 59B
*I have split todays replay into two, due to admin difficulties, Hi, Ant
[to parts now reunited]*
> -----Original Message-----
From: MICHAEL W. BONNYCASTLE [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 1998 10:44 AM
...snip...
> Any way you could post
> these?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Michael Bonnycastle
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:17:40 -0700
From: "MICHAEL W. BONNYCASTLE" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01E-LAWE (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: "Dustin W. Carr" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
CC: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: beyond level 5
Dustin W. Carr wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Your email got buried in the middle of lots of stuff, so I apologize
for the
> long delay.
>
...snip...
> > Any way you could post
> > these?
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Michael Bonnycastle
> >
Hello Dustin,
Thanks for the response. If I may ask, is there anything in your return
to level 5
that you may now especially emphasize or are applying in your latest
run-through? I ask this because of late level 5 has gone curiously flat
for me
though I do feel there is more to be gained from it.
Best regards,
Michael Bonnycastle
From: "Dustin W. Carr" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
To: "MICHAEL W. BONNYCASTLE" <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: beyond level 5
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 12:47:19 -0400
> Thanks for the response. If I may ask, is there
> anything in your return to level 5
> that you may now ...
...snip...
>... this because of late level 5 has gone curiously
> flat for me though I do feel there
> is more to be gained from it.
I feel that the RI process included in TROM is insufficient. Without
sufficient RI, I had the experience of level 5 becoming somewhat flat. This
has happened twice.
The many objectives exercises included in the beginning of the Pilot's book
are excellent and served well to put me back in control of things and
increase my awareness of the present. When I went back to doing level 5,
the changes were stronger than ever. In fact, I started over on level 5 at
the beginning of this year. After many hours (>100), I have just now moved
on to the fourth step on the chart. Each step brought so much change that
it took months to flatten it.
The main focus has been on maintaining my concentration, and focusing my
will enough to create the postulates in present time with intention. I keep
the awareness that I am creating the postulates, and that nothing is causing
me to do this. When this stimulates pictures, emotions, ideas, etc I do not
try to understand why these pictures/emotion/ideas brought about the
compulsive postulates. Instead I acknowledge how they are merely examples
of the postulates. These examples serve to clarify how I am using these
postulates in the present time.
To take an example suppose that as a child, you have experiences where you
failure to do a math problem in front of a class lead to ridicule. An
overwhelm results and you are forced to accept that you do not know math.
You then carry around this postulate, and you bar anybody from being able to
communicate math to you. You may even take a life path that puts you in a
position where nobody will ever try to communicate to you regarding math.
Now, when this image from childhood comes up during level 5 (self:not know,
others:must not be known), it would be easy to acknowledge the cause of your
compulsive postulate as arising from the incident in your childhood, and
that you were using level 5 with the intention of finding such a cause. This
puts you in a game against your mind, where you think that you have fooled
your mind into uncovering some of its dark secrets that have been making
your life less than what it should be.
Instead, you can view the image as an example of the postulate that your
mind has uncovered so as to help you with your goal of gaining understanding
of your self. Now you and your mind are on the same team, playing a game
that both can enjoy and benefit from.
But what about the fact that you can point to that event and say that it
caused you to compulsively avoid math for the rest of your life? That is
not significant. As long as you can gain control of the postulate now and
release your compulsions, then all past transgressions are forgiven.
The important question to ask is not "What is the hidden cause for what I am
doing/being/having?" but instead "What am I doing/being/having?"
This is much more than I had intended to write. And probably more than I
should say on the spur of the moment.
I hope it helps.
Dustin
> Best regards,
>
> Michael Bonnycastle
**************end of two parts of one relay
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