*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
Dear Gabor,
thanks for the clarifications. I appreciate and understand
your insights.
Please find below some comments interspersed into your post.
Hi Robin,
Thanks again for your extremely detailed answer.
I always eagerly await your opinion, when I write something.
So
About the significance of events:
Currently I'm running the To Enhance package. I know I should be
running the To Know package, but since it still gives me change
so I just do it, until I run out of it.
Nothing wrong with running that junior-goals package as long as
it gives you change. You can go back to the "To Know" pack anytime.
You can't go wrong as long as you follow your interest. Your mind
will hand you out what you can handle well.
I like to criticize people
and people also criticize me. Is that significant? It happens
quite often, but it's not like the death of a family member.
I do not regard them charged, but they are not like random
events from my life (which I was timebreaking previously
with the same amount of yawning). So they have a little charge
but nothing big.
Okay, I get it. Just wanted to be sure to understand correctly what
your idea of "significance" is and that it is not exclusively focused
on e.g. engrams, locks, secondaries.
When I started trom, I started with the big
ones, but there are only so many of them, and I run out of them
very quickly. I'm running these because I moved to level 5, and
they just pop in my mind when I put the postulate out.
Perfect. Do not be surprised if you get "big ones" again sometimes.
There may still be some more there, but hidden from view. Perhaps not
yet ready to be confronted. You have to dig away some of the small
rubble which is heaped upon them first. And that's what you're doing.
Regarding Wins:
I did scientology grade 0 and 1, and there is where I got my idea
of a win. You just sit in auditing, you go around those questions
and then BAM! you just realize something. Often times it's small
but in a couple of hours of auditing I have a few lasting ones,
which stay with me for days or months.
I can relate that very well to what I've seen in Scientology happening
with people including myself. Have seen tons of releases. Some lasting
years. But for different reasons they did not stay there. Never the
less, many didn't drop back to their previous level or even fell below
that. There was at least some residual case-gain of permanence.
There is one point on the Bridge which is marked by the PC's realization
that he will never again get worse than that. I regard that point as
the point from where onwards one can make it on his own.
From what you wrote above, is it correct to assume that you finally
- after days or months - had lost all the wins you had on Grades 0 and 1?
(Or did the last sentence relate to your current TROM processing?)
Have you consulted with your auditor in regard of any lost wins in
Scientology? Ask him to rehabilitate those wins with you.
Someone (or even you) may have invalidated your wins in the past?
My Goals with Trom:
Of course all of us could live with more power/money/sex, but
this is not my motivation. I feel I am constrained. I am locked
between my own ideas about life, and cannot break out. As the
years pass, I feel more and more limited, in a smaller and
smaller place to move around. I need to break out of this
prison of beliefs. I want to be free and young again, fearless,
like when I was a teenager. I hope trom could get me there.
I guess, with the above realization you're already head and shoulder
above what many achieve in their life. Taking a glimpse beyond the
limits of the secular aspects of life - which is what you already
do - can make one feel uncomfortable or small somehow.
On the other hand what you describe can as well indicate a "drawing
back" or, in other words, a feeling of "inability to reach out".
Please see the definitions below:
[8. havingness is the concept of being able to reach or not being
prevented from reaching. (SH Spec 126, 6203C29) 9 . the need to have
terminals and things to play for and on. (Dn 55!, p. 137) Abbr. Hav.]
[NO HAVINGNESS, 1. is defined as something that a person can’t reach or
doesn’t
permit itself to be reached. (SH Spec 103, 6201C23) 2. no havingness is
prevented reach; in other words, the concept of no reach. (SH Spec 97,
6201C09)]
[OWNERSHIP, 1. ownership is a problem of havingness. If you own something
you can have it, if you don't own it you can't have it. (2ACC-29B,
5312CM20)
2. ownership could be said to be that area being covered and protected by
the
preclear. (PAB 8)]
[TRAP, 1. one is trapped by those things to which he will not grant
havingness. A
game condition demands that one denies havingness. Therefore games trap.
Traps are part of games. That is all they are. (PAB 94) 2 . all a trap is,
is being
inside something, interiorized. (5410CMlOC) 3 . theta and mest
interconnected
too strongly are the components of a trap. Theta is mixed up with mest,
mest is
mixed up with theta. (SCP, p. 21)]
[ 9 . the
process of bringing a balance between freedom and barriers. Auditing is a
game
of exteriorization versus havingness. (Abil 25)]
What comes to mind - and do not regard the following as fact, it's only my
opinions - is this:
- One may draw back from life's activities to devote more time to spiritual
development. I've seen that this can be overdone and one draws back in a
kind
of ivory tower. Such a being may be liable to loose sight of what is going
on around him, may disconnect from friends, relatives a.s.o.
The irony of it is that the being may not do that because he has somehow
fallen out of ARC with the environment but rather because there is no time
left to deal with the environment. And he does what he does (the almost
exclusive concentration on the 7th dynamic) for the purpose of improving
his relationship (or havingness) to the environment.
That's why I said "do not forget to live your life." Do not underestimate
its value in terms of therapeutic usefulness.
- The second factor which balances and enhances any processing activity
is, in my opinion, study. Try to assimilate as much information as you can.
Even when it contradicts your current believes (which you feel, that they
limit you somehow). The contradictions may make you feel uncomfortable.
But consider, what use has it to seek out only those parts which confirm
your current believes? They would not shake you up. The non-conform pieces
however ask to be aligned somehow. And that gives rise to cognitions.
(It does not matter what makes one cognite. Be it in life through
experience,
be it through processing when resolving a contradiction of the past, or
be it through inspiration from a book. A cognition is a cognition. The
manifestations and benefits will be the same no matter what had triggered
it.)
- Further there is a tendency with most humans that they think one method,
one idea, one philosophy will do it all. It's a wish or desire for
simplicity.
When being introduces to Scientology I was fascinated and thought: "Wow!
that's it. It will solve all my problems. And there is nothing else I'll
ever need to know." How cute, couldn't have more erred than that.
Never the less it was a necessary step on a path that has no end.
The bottom line from the above - for me that was one of my better
recognitions -
that the fastest road to freedom (one can call it as well wisdom) is a
three
lane approach. Life - Processing - Study. If you like you can look at it
as a triangle. The three corners enhance each other and the area symbolizes
the degree of wisdom = freedom attained.
Level 2 and 3.
I am mixing levels because of my inability to timebreak a whole scene.
What you're doing is exactly what Dennis suggests. If you can timebreak
a whole scene at once it's fine. But usually you take them apart bit by
bit. (You would not stuff a whole plate into your mouth at once, but
rather pick your meal a bite at a time in order to digest it properly ;-)
If I place the then and now event (very hard to do for me) then I do
not experience the same level of yawning. The effects are much smaller
and it is unrealistic, I cannot really do it. So whatever shows up
I drop to level 2 to timebreak it. It's not like I want to do it
like that. I want so much to just place a past event in the present
moment, and then just see it fade away in intensity, but I guess
until it takes 20 minutes to run out one person from a past event
it will not be possible. That time should decrease to 10 minutes
then to 5, and maybe then I will gain the ability to truly timebreak
in one swell swoop.
To realize that an incident looses intensity (gets less solid) is certainly
what you should expect. But do not think that an event will be erased
completely out of your memory. You can any time remember it or mock that
scene up again. But it has no charge or unpleasant aspects anymore attached
to it. What you do in incident running (no matter which tech you use) is
that you transfer that particular experience from your bank into your
analytical mind. From that moment on it is just one piece of data more
you have available. The difference is, that now you have full control over
that image. Before that, the environment was in control of it. Technically:
It was restimulated by something in the now which made it act out certain
contents. Those may have been valuable and right in the past, but in the
now they are inappropriate to the situation. We say, such a person is
dramatizing (acting out a script like an actor on stage).
What you're actually interested in is the decisions (postulates) you had
made in those moments of overwhelm. As soon as you regain the ability to
sort out the correct ownership of the postulates they will loose their
power. The NED (New Era Diantics) approach is to tackle the incidents and
go backwards on the time-track until you have put off so much charge that
the postulate(s) come into view. This is really not an easy thing to do
solo. In TROM you take a different road to tackle the same problems. It's
"softer" and thus better suited for solo. You put up a generic idea of
situations of postulate-configurations according to the Postulate-Failure-
Cycle-Chart. This poses a light restimulation which will not overwhelm you.
Further timebreaking anchors you well enough in present time (in NED the
auditor would be your safety net instead). Now, whatever pops up is what
your mind offers you. You better not question it, but accept it as is.
What the mind offers can not be judged logically. The content is stacked
illogically based on association. Therefore have no expectations regarding
the qualities or properties of the things that pop up. Just follow the
procedure by rote.
It may be inherent to such a "soft" approach that the spectacular wins
may not come so easily as with audited Grades, NED or other procedures.
It is rather like watching the hour hand of a clock. It seems to stand
still. But if you look away for a while and than look again you see it
has moved. Therefore it is useful - and you obviously do that - to keep
records of your processing activity (and not only in regard of processing,
but make notes of whatever changes you experience in your life) in order
to see how you're doing long term. (And note as well what you did or
what you avoided to do when the cognition, win, improvement came.)
However, if it turns out that you make absolutely no case gain or even
conclude that you get worse, you should consider to change something.
In that regard it may be useful for you to read the LRH materials about
conditions and statistics.
If you want to follow the advice concerning study, I recommend to
(re)read Ron's early works like:
Dianetics 55
Fundamental Of Tghoughts
Scientology 8-80
Scientology 8-8008
PDC-Lecture Tapes 1952
Creation Of Human Ability
....
Some of the above will give you more insight into the mechanics of TROM
and from where it originates.
Besides that there is a tremendous amount of material available on the
net from various sources - some in the tradition of Scientology others
not.
It is not possible to give a precise list of "must-reads" because every
person has its special needs. You can only find out for yourself.
Anyhow, it is a rewarding and enjoyable endeavor.
Best wishes and success
Robin
-------
*************
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************
Hi Vorb,
please find my comments inserted into your text below.
Hi Guys,
I am very happy to inform you, that I just hit my 100 hour goal
for 2016 and this gives me 200 hours altogether with TROM.
You can read my previous reports here:
at 100 hours:
http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/2016-March/005194.html
at 150 hours:
http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/2016-August/005376.html
So what happened?
First of all RI started to work at around 160-170 hours in.
Before that, when I did RI nothing happened. I run it
no yawning, no needle movement on the e-meter, no change
at all. So I got used to it, just did it for a minute or
two, and then moved on to level 2. Sometimes I run it
for 15 minutes, just to see if it turns something on.
Well the Tone Arm on the e-meter started to rise very
slowly (as it should do with havingness processes) and
reaches around 3.5 in about 15 minutes, but still no change.
And then out of the blue at around 160 hours I yawned
a very little, and then more and more, and harder and
harder the yawning become. In the last 30 hours I yawned
just as hard as running an event for usually 20 minutes.
So I start the session, do RI for 20 minutes, with a lot
of yawning, then puff, all of a sudden the yawning is
gone, I try for 2-3 more minutes and then move on to
my special mixture of level 5 with level 2.
So I take the postulate failure chart, put the postulate
in the wall, wait a few seconds, and ... yawning starts almost
immediately. Soon and event pops up in my mind from this life.
Then I take the event and run it on level 2. This takes
these days somewhere between 10 - 30 minutes. I do RI
afterwards (this time nothing happens) and look back on the
postulate failure chart put the postulates back, start
yawning almost immediately, then in a minute a new
event appears and repeat the whole thing.
Then I finish with RI (nothing happens here)
Those events that appear, do you regard them as significant or
charged events? Or are they just every-day events which you
remember? In the latter case running through them or timebreaking
them would not do much. You can not discharge an uncharged
incident.
Further, there is some risk - particularly for PCs who have had
a past in Scientology - that they have a strong focus on the
way incidents are run in Dianetics. They believe that auditing must
always be about incidents and discharging traumatic incidents. They
have a tendency to be biased in that direction and auditing which is
based on concepts appears unreal to them. (A good example of
processing which is not based on incidents but rather handles them
from a conceptual point of view is the "Black and White" procedure
from the book Scientology 8-8008. That simple process handles
engrams wholesale without ever touching a single specific incident.
In that regard TROM L5 is similar. There is a high level of
abstraction contained in it which is necessary to make it runnable
as a solo self-clearing method. Of course incidents - even highly
charged ones may pop-up. But do not expect that exclusively.
[Quote Dennis:
"Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're
dealing purely with postulates.
You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're
dealing with postulates. That's all you are putting up, it's
postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting
up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not
mocking up people, you are not mocking up walls, or floors,
or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates. What
we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level
of level 5, it's postulates. That is all we are working with at
level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we
timebreak out anything else that shows up. We only work
with postulates at Level 5.
"It is an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very
strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just
working with postulates. But after one gets used to it, when
you get into level 5 you get to a point eventually where you
wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates
because you get the fastest results working with postulates
and you always work with just postulates. You simply
timebreak out everything else that shows up.
Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or
whatever shows up, you simply timebreak them out.
So at level 5 you are working purely with postulates. Once
you grasp that you have got it. You have got it. You can work
then on level 5 and realize what you're doing."]
Listen (or read) again very carefully the tape which Dennis made to
explain the L5 procedure step by step.
He says:
["Then you simply timebreak out anything that shows up, any
sensations that show up.
Your whole situation is of cameo9, as a scenario, as a scene,
and you timebreak out anything that happens. Anything that
shows up, you time break it. Time break it out until it's gone"]
So you pick up not only the visual content but as well e.g.
emotions, feelings, ... to timebreak them.
Make sure that you really put up the right postulates. Which
would be in the case of the first line of the chart the MBK
(Must Be Known) of the _other_ (your opponent) and not your
own postulate.
I quote Dennis again:
["If you go over the column 1 on the chart you see that the level
here is "Forced to Know. It's you being forced to know. Get that?
Doesn't matter what it is, you don't have to specify as we are
just working with the postulates. So you would put up "Must
be Known" over that way in the class of not-self.
Now get yourself right where you are, right here where you
are with the "Must Know" postulate. There's a little danger
there that you could say, ?Oh well, get me over that way.?
Oh no, that's wrong. You get here right where you are with
the "Must know" postulate."]
Make very, very sure you have that right. Because otherwise the whole
procedure will not work as intended.
This squirrel method was developed by me because all of
you urged me to move on to level 5, and because I wanted
to have some wins. Well, I still did not have a single win,
but it is instructive to see for example me criticizing
others or others criticizing me and so on.
What do you regard as a win?
You may have expectations which can not be met by a certain tech.
People often go into Scientology or other practices driven by
a desire to get rich, have power, have a good 2D, ...
And that is the way it is sometimes advertised. It's not
about spiritual development or freedom.
In auditing this is known as "Hidden Standard".
Quoting you:
"it is instructive to see for example me criticizing
others or others criticizing me and so on."
Isn't that a win for you?
Definition:
[HIDDEN STANDARD, 1. a hidden standard is a problem a person thinks must
be resolved before auditing can be seen to have worked. It?s a standard
by
which to judge Scn or auditing or the auditor. This hidden standard is
always
an old problem of long duration. It is a postulate-counter-postulate
situation. The
source of the counter-postulate was suppressive to the pc. (HCOB 8 Nov
65)
2 .
is not just a physical or mental difficulty but one by which the pc
measures his
case gains. A case measurement thing used secretly by the pc. (BTB 18
Sept
72)
Abbr. HS.]
*Level 2 overrun?*
Previously some people hinted that I overrun level 2,
but I no longer believe that. I spoke with my auditor
and he told me: and overrun is immediately visible on
the meter as a sharp rise of the Tone Arm, which would
settle between TA=4 - 5 in 1 to 2 minutes. This has never
ever happened.
That's good that at least "overrun" can be ruled out now as
a reason for your troubles.
So we have left those options:
- L2 is flat (at least for the time being).
- L2 is left unflat somehow.
Now, you could ask your auditor to check that by asking you
on the emeter. He would as well use buttons like "suppressed",
"invalidated" on the question.
And do not forget to check on L3 and L4 as well!
But finally your own opinion about the answer will be the only
valid criterion. You can always trust your own feelings in that
respect.
*What About RI?*
My auditor told me, that very often preclears start
auditing, they go really fast, and then at some point
they collapse, and then the auditing really start to
bite. Many preclears give up then, feeling they lost
all wins. He compared it to a river you have to swim
through, but some preclears start to ice skate on
the thin ice on the river banks, until the ice cracks
and then the hard part begins. I believe at 170 hours
of trom the ice collapsed under me, so I reached the
bottom, all I have to do now is swim, it cannot be
worse than this.
That is a sensible assessment.
As well do not expect spectacular wins and cognitions from
RI when the CCHs and L1 had been flattened on you.
The purpose of RI is not even to bring in your rudiments at
the start of a session. If that is what you need you better do
it with timebreaking all the events of the day (as Dennis
proposes in the same tape I've been referring above).
The purpose of RI is to remedy havingness. Auditing which is
effective (you see TA-action on your meter which is a measure
of charge being blown off of your case) a PC experiences an
effect which can be described as depletion of havingness.
RI balances and remedies that unwanted sensation.
Definitions:
[DEPLETION OF HAVINGNESS, the truth of something, even when arrived at
by the route of subjection and force, will as-is the something and cause
its
vanishment, and thus it is no longer had. This is called by auditors the
depletion
of havingness. (5601C31)]
[HAVINGNESS, 1. that which permits the experience of mass and pressure.
(A&L,
p. 8) 2 . the feeling that one owns or possesses. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)
3
. can
be simply defined as ARC with the environment. (SH Spec 294, 6308C14) 4
.
that activity which is run when needed and when it will not violently
deflect the
pc?s attention. (SH Spec 85, 6111C28) 5 . the result of creation. (SH
Spec
19,
6106C23) 6 . the ability to duplicate that which one perceives, or
create a
duplication of what one perceives, or to be willing to create a
duplication of it.
But it?s duplication. (lSHACC-10, 6009C14) 7 . ability to communicate
with
an
isness. The ability to conceive an is-ness and communicate with it. (
17ACC-4,
5702C28) 8. havingness is the concept of being able to reach or not
being
prevented from reaching. (SH Spec 126, 6203C29) 9 . the need to have
terminals and things to play for and on. (Dn 55!, p. 137) Abbr. Hav.]
*What are my wins/realizations?*
Was I ever angry while doing trom? No! Sad? No!
Depressed? No! Any emotion? Nada!
Only yawning, yawning and more yawning.
I guess I will have no wins (realizations) until I
move out of yawning (unconsciousness) and reach the
lowest levels of the tone scale.
Isn't that an excellent cognition?
Give yourself a VWD.
*What's next?*
For 2017 my goal would be 200 hours which would put me
at 400 hours of trom altogether.
My auditor said that a preclear needs 450 hours
on average to get to scientology clear, so I am willing
to put in that much effort. Dennis said that completion
of level 3 results in a higher state than Clear and even OT8,
so it would be stupid of me to think that 50 or 100 hours
of level 2 processing would get me above Clear.
I hope I will have the willpower and endurance, maybe I will
decrease my goal back to just a 100 hours ... will see.
Problem is: I still yawn (my mouth is open) for about
90 % of the auditing time, my nose still runs, and very often
I have to sleep/nap after 1 hour of trom auditing.
If I don't sleep oftentimes I'm completely useless for the
rest of the day. (and yes, I tried with RI ... did not help)
When you compare Scientology auditing with any self-help therapy
in order to estimate a time span which is necessary to achieve
the same results consider the following:
a) Estimates for yourself are very inaccurate because you have
to place your case within a very broad bandwidth of case-states.
Such an estimation is liable to introduce large error-factors in
your calculation.
b) The progress toward higher states of consciousness is not a
linear curve. It often happen in jumps of different sizes.
Usually they get larger as soon as you have found out of the
thick mire.
c) It is not fair to compare a self-clearing tech with one that
is administered by a professional therapist. That would be the
same as comparing the performance of an automobile to a bicycle.
You have to make compromises if you want to make it solely on
your own or you want to save money. As they say: "Time is money."
d) Out of own experience and what I've learned from others I can
tell this:
If one relies exclusively on processing in order to progress as
a being, the progress will be slow and you're liable to grind to
a halt somewhere. It was not only for their stats' sake when
the registrars of the church recommended to not neglect the
study/training path on the bridge.
I guess I've always made more progress by assimilating knowledge
than by processing. Both together are an extremely powerful team -
more than just the sum of each.
Did it ever occur to you that the manifestations (GIs or VGIs,
F/N, cognitions and case gain) are actually the same no matter if
they are derived from processing or study? Interesting, isn't it.
So, if you want a recommendation, I suggest devote some of your
schedule to study. Oh, and do not forget to live :-)
Any comment or encouragement is very welcome!
Good Tromming, Vorb
Best regards
Robin
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2016 10:42:14 -0800
From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TROM1] Vorb's Trom Diary at 200 hours
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Vorb
In your study and auditing at level five have you figured out the games
you are playing in life and begun to recognize when others are trying
to
get you to play a role in their game?
Sincerely
Pete McLaughlin
Sent from my iPad
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2016 08:53:22 +0100
From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]>
To: TROM <[email protected]>
Subject: [TROM1] Replay B60
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Sent*Saturday 12th of November 2016*
by *[email protected]*(Antony Phillips)
This begins with the reminder of how things were in those days with
regard to viruses. I expect everybody on this list as an antivirus
program, the modern answer.
Note that this is a resend of a message sent some years ago, and some
data (like addresses)is liable to be inaccurate.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2001 21:02:06 +0200
To: [email protected]
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Subject: [trom-L] Replay B60
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
*************
The following message is relayed to you by [email protected]
************
last sent: Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:30:44 +0200
WARNING: If your receive an .exe. file by email from me (or anyone
else) do not run it. I received happy99.exe from a friend. As I felt I
trusted her, I opened it. Saw a firewoirk display. Later I sent a
message to a list I was member of, and found happy99.exe had also been
sent, in a seperate email, but with the same subject from me! It is a
worm.
Data can be found on:
http://beta.nai.com/public/datafiles/valerts/vinfo/w32ska.htm
and
http://www.avp.com/happy/body_happy.html
I also received the following handling procedure:
****************'
Removal and Protection
If the worm is detected in your system you can easy get rid of it just
by
deleting SKA.EXE and
SKA.DLL files in the system Windows directory. You also should delete
the
WSOCK32.DLL
file and replace it with WSOCK32.SKA original file. The original
HAPPY99.EXE file should
be also located and deleted.
To protect your computer from re-infection you need just to set
Read-Only attribute for the
WSOCK32.DLL file. The worm does not pay attention to Read-Only mode,
and
fails to patch the file. This trick was discovered by Peter Szor at
DataFellows
http://www.datafellows.com
**********************
Excuse the harsh beginning - it is wise to be wise before hand. Not,
like me, an unsusecting victim and passer on to others.
Here is the replay!
**************
Subject: meter/computer interface
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:33:58 +0200
From: Antony Phillips <[email protected]>
Organization: International Viewpoints
To: [email protected], [email protected]
CC: [email protected], [email protected]
For those of you interested in meters connected to computers, the
following message appeared on:
========
Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
Subject: new product
From: [email protected] (Ralph Hilton)
Date: 23 Sep 1998 07:45:48 -0400
On 23 Sep 1998 02:23:48 -0400, in alt.clearing.technology
[email protected]
(Nic Ford) wrote:
>Press release (or should it be net release?)
>
>My website now contains details and a downloadable file for the new
meter
>computer interface.
>
>Regards, Nic Ford
>
>Nic Ford
>The Computer Film Company
>
The URL is http://www.mindwalker.co.uk/compinterface.htm
****************
All best wishes,
Ant
--
Ralph Hilton
http://Ralph.Hilton.org
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