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Hi Robin As you and Dennis and Hubbard say life consists of thetans and postulates. So why complicate changing my postulate "to smoke" with "different approaches"?
From the Fundamentals of Thought (below) you see that the cycle of action is: Create Create-create-create Counter create And from the Scientology Glossary the definition of As-is gives us three ways to stop smoking Once i created the postulate to smoke i can stop smoking by As-ising the postulate to smoke Or i can postulate to not smoke which is a counter creation to the original postulate Or i can simply fail to continue smoking which is a no-create on the postulate. This could happen if i decided to smoke but a blight wiped out the tobacco plants so there where no more cigarettes. These are the only course of action possible to stop smoking. In fact i counter created by postulating that smoking was causing me to have soar throats so i HAD to stop or i would continue to have soar throats. So you see that changing my mind about anything i postulated in the past can be accomplished by these three methods. Sincerely Pete McLaughlin Scientology Glossary as-is: to view anything exactly as it is, without any distortions or lies, at which moment it vanishes and ceases to exist. See also as-isness. as-isness: the condition of immediate creation without persistence, and is the condition of existence which exists at the moment of creation and the moment of destruction, and is different from other considerations in that it does not contain survival. create: make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness. create-counter-create: to create something against a creation; to create one thing and then create something else against it, bringing about the destruction of the first creation. create-create-create: create again continuously one moment after the next. This is survival. See also create. start-change-stop: the cycle of action in this universe, which is also the anatomy of control. Almost the entire subject of control is summed up in the ability to start, change and stop one’s activities, body and one’s environment. See also cycle of action. Fundamentals of Thought THE ACTUAL CYCLE OF ACTION THE ACTUAL CYCLE OF ACTION is as follows: CREATE, create-create-create, create-counter-create, no creation, nothingness. CREATE = make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness = CREATE. Create-create-create = create again continuously one moment after the next = SURVIV AL. Create-counter-create = to create something against a creation = to create one thing and then create something else against it = DESTROY. No creation = an absence of any creation = no creative activity. AN ACTUAL cycle of action then consists of various activities but each and every one of them is creative. The cycle of action contains an APPARENCY of SURVIVAL but this is actually only a continuous creation. The APPARENT cycle of action contains DESTRUCTION but the ACTUAL cycle of action tells us what destruction is. DESTRUCTION is one of TWO activities. Sent from my iPad > On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:09 AM, The Resolution of Mind list > <trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: > > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org > ************ > Hi Pete, > > when you stopped smoking, was it essential for you to go back > to the moment where you decided to start smoking? > > Different approaches to this kind of problems are possible > and whatever helped you to get rid of an unwanted habit is fine. > In that respect there is no right or wrong way. > > You could have made as well a new postulate in PT which overrules > the old one. People often do that when a new year starts. They say: > "From now on I quit smoking." It does not work for all because > they can not make this postulate "stick". But often enough it does. > > The example is on a relative low gradient. You have been most likely > well aware when you smoked your first cigarette, no trauma involved. > > But the real severe aberrations are not so easily handled. You have > to dig out the postulate(s) first. > > Dennis on L5 does not care about specific postulates. He uses a kind > of abstraction. He lets you put up the most general package's (to know) > postulates on both sides and then you see what pops up. You do not > timebreake the postulate but the incidents, persons, feelings and so on. > > The point is, that a postulate does not belong to the same category > as e.g. a mass, a charge, facsimiles, aso. > > A PC who does not make a differentiation between those things might > think that he must "run" a postulate in order to "erase" it. > Certainly we can let him find out the hard way. But is it not > better to get a good grasp on the terms we use? > > > Regards > > Robin > > > ---- > > >> On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 13:00:02 +0100, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >> >> Send TROM mailing list submissions to >> trom@lists.newciv.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) >> (The Resolution of Mind list) >> 2. Re: Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) >> (The Resolution of Mind list) >> 3. Re: Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging yawn - >> (The Resolution of Mind list) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:55:07 +0100 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) >> Message-ID: <mailman.2632.1485075406.1250.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> <snip> >>>> >>>> I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say >>>> I have had success. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> David >>>> >> <snip> >> >> >> David, Pete, anyone concerned, >> >> most of the misunderstandings and questions about postulates do easily >> resolve when you just look thoroughly at a couple of definitions. >> Below you find the most important ones regarding the subject of >> postulates, already brought into meaningful sequence: >> >> [POSTULATE, n. 1. a self-created truth would be simply the consideration >> generated by self. Well, we just borrow the word which is in seldom use in >> the >> English language, we call that postulate. And we mean by postulate, >> selfcreated >> truth. He posts something. He puts something up and that?s what a >> postulate is. (HPC A6-4, 5608C--) 2. a postulate is, of course, that thing >> which is a directed desire or order, or inhibition, or enforcement, on the >> part >> of the individual in the form of an idea. (2ACC 23A, 5312CM14) 3 . that >> self determined thought which starts, stops or changes past, present or >> future >> efforts. >> (APIA, p. 33) 4 . is actually a prediction. (5112CM30B)?v. 1 . in Scn the >> word >> postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a specially >> applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (FOT, p. 71) 2 . to >> conclude, decide or resolve a problem or to set a pattern for the future >> or to >> nullify a pattern of the past. (HFP, p. 155) 3 . to generate or ?think? a >> concept. A postulate infers conditions and actions rather than just plain >> thinks. It has a dynamic connotation. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)] >> >> >> There are a couple of flavors of postulates: >> >> [OPPOSITE POSTULATE, an individual who has made a postulate on a subject >> experiences "failure" when he has to make an opposite postulate later. The >> opposite postulate has the effect of a negative postulate. The opposite >> postulate is distinguished from a negative postulate because it depends >> upon >> effort which a negative postulate does not necessarily have to do. (AP&A, >> P. >> 34)] >> >> >> (The above may be of special interest for those people who are concerned >> with TROM.) >> >> [NEGATIVE POSTULATE, the postulate not to be. It cancels past postulates >> and it also cancels, in greater or lesser degree, the entire individual. >> (AP&A, >> p. 34)] >> >> [PAST POSTULATES, decisions or conclusions the preclear has made in the >> past >> and to which he is still subjected in the present. Past postulates are >> uniformly >> invalid since they cannot resolve present environment. (NFP Gloss)] >> >> >> This is not a definition per se, but an applicable notion: >> >> "The universe consists of life and postulates" - DHS >> >> Now, we are legitimate to substitute "life" with "theta". >> They are not precisely synonymous but never the less we can get >> some sense out of: "The Universe consists of Theta and postulates." >> >> Actually it answers a question, you David, recently posed. >> It was the question regarding what a Thetan can do, what his >> abilities are. >> >> The list of a Thetan's abilities is rather short. It contains >> one item only: >> >> A Thetan postulates >> >> Well, does not look too impressive. But look again. This single >> item covers it all. >> >> Now see the Scale Of Reality: >> >> [SCALE OF REALITY, 1. the reality scale refers to the individual?s hold on >> reality and his agreement with others on what reality is. (NOTL, p. 103) 2 >> . at >> the bottom there is nothing, above that there is a communication line, the >> line >> becomes more solid, then above that terminals begin to materialize lightly >> and >> the line becomes less solid, then above that you have the terminals and you >> don?t have any lines, and above that the terminals are there mostly by >> agreement, above that there is agreement, and above agreement there is >> consideration, individual consideration, and above that there is postulate. >> That is the Scale of Reality. (PAB 154)] >> >> >> Actually you better look at the scale upside-down. >> I give it again below. >> >> At the scales top you come close to "static". The lower you go >> along the scale the more solid it gets. >> >> You see we start from: >> >> Postulate, >> Individual Consideration, >> Consideration, >> Agreement, >> Terminals, ... the different flavors (solidities) of Communication ... >> >> As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that >> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to >> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could >> then as-is a Thetan. A funny idea. Please do not worry, no Thetan is >> in danger to be annihilated by another Thetan, or in the course of >> processing through as-ising. That would make an interesting paradox. >> Simply because no one who would have regained such an ability would >> ever care about any Thetan or processing at all. >> >> As well a postulate will not produce any read on a meter. Except >> this one here: "This meter's needle is going to move!" >> Those PC's who are already in good shape would rather move the >> whole universe around the needle's pivot point instead ;-) >> >> What makes the meter read is the effects which our postulates >> create. In other words the postulate's manifestations in terms of >> particles, movement, energies, masses (condensed energy), feelings, >> emotions, images, charges, screens, symbols, ... you name it. >> >> One can place a postulate into a solid - e.g. a wall. You may >> or may not be able to "as-is" that wall. The postulate still remains. >> >> Any postulate - consideration - thought (in that sequence) ever >> brought forth by theta always was and always will be. >> (Quiz-question: Which often used Bible-quotes says the same >> in other words?) >> >> Why is it then, that we are that much concerned with postulates in >> any clearing technique which deserves to be called such? >> >> What we have a problem with, is not the postulates itself but rather >> that we can not make our postulates 'stick' - at least not in a >> predictable and desirable manner. >> >> Through the eons we came down we had put much attention and cleverness >> into the activity of building enormously complex postulate structures >> with tons of lies, false ownerships (valences, co-creation), >> complicated mechanisms of forgettingness, blackness, dub-ins, >> automaticities, machinery of all kinds, aso. >> >> The sole purpose of processing is to reestablish some order in that >> chaos. In order to entangle the postulate structures you have to >> go about it in a logical manner. You put aside a lot of rubbish first >> until you can see through the complex fabric. >> >> Why do we not just postulate ourself into a perfectly unaberated, healthy, >> able state? Presumably because we did not want it that way. Would be too >> easy. No fun in the game. It would constitute the same paradox >> which was already mentioned further above in this text. >> >> Therefore it does you no good if you use effort or be inpatient or >> operate on false assumptions right form the beginning. False expectations >> (e.g. Hidden Standards) will rather slow you down. Effort will only >> add to the solidity of ones reactive mind. >> >> [CLEARING, 1 . a gradient process of finding places where attention is >> fixed and >> restoring the ability of the pc to place and remove attention under his own >> determinism. (HCOB 28 Feb 59) 2 . what is clearing but regaining awareness >> that one is himself, and regaining confidence. (HCOB 1 Feb 58)] >> >> (Emphasis on "gradient" in def.1) >> >> Confidence in what? >> >> In the only thing a Thetan can do :-) >> >> >> Robin >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 03:56:40 -0800 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: trom@lists.newciv.org >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) >> Message-ID: <mailman.2652.1485086288.1250.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Robin >> You said "As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that >> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to >> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could >> then as-is a Thetan. " >> >> What is the problem with as-using a postulate? If i made a postulate to >> smoke cigarettes in the past and want to stop smoking now then the correct >> way to do it is to examine, duplicate the original postulate and as-is it at >> which point i will no longer smoke cigarettes. Isn't this the way it works? >> >> Sincerely >> Pete Mclaughlin >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:55 AM, The Resolution of Mind list >>> <trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>> As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that >>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to >>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could >>> then as-is a Thetan. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:18:04 -0500 >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org> >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging >> yawn - >> Message-ID: <mailman.2655.1485086377.1250.t...@lists.newciv.org> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Pete, >> >> I do not know. >> >> I have never smoked or did any drugs except for experimentation, and found >> it repulsive or depressing. >> >> Never had an addiction to alcohol either, actually do not like the effects >> of alcohol. >> >> David >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < >> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> ************ >>> >>> Hi David >>> How do you change a postulate after you have made it? >>> For instance if you decided to start smoking as a kid how would you go >>> about changing your mind and not smoking from now on? >>> >>> Sincerely >>> Pete McLaughlin >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Jan 17, 2017, at 4:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>> ************* >>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>> ************ >>> >>> Thanks for your reply, Pete. >>> >>> >>> >>> I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say I >>> have had success. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> David >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:35 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>> >>>> ************* >>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> Hi David >>>> >>>> Yes is am applying axiom 16. Any time i have an ache, pain or >>>> mis-emotion i focus my attention on it and duplicate it, view it, see it as >>>> clearly as possible. >>>> If it is a sore thumb i look at the sensations and try to visualize the >>>> exact tissues in the thumb that are producing the pain sensation. I look >>>> for any incident in the past that is involved but usually there is none so >>>> i just focus on the painful sensation to make it as intense and the source >>>> of the pain as clear as possible. >>>> Then I continue to focus on this sensation, pain , mis emotion whatever >>>> and it will soon fade away. >>>> >>>> Then i carry on with what task i was doing. >>>> >>>> Muriel Chen's book is all about applying this method to a number of >>>> situations. >>>> >>>> Sincerely >>>> Pete McLaughlin >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 5:14 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> ************* >>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>>> ************ >>>> >>>> Hi Pete, >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you for posting that. >>>> >>>> >>>> Have you been able to make that axiom work? >>>> >>>> >>>> If so how? >>>> >>>> >>>> And what were the results? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < >>>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> ************* >>>>> The following message is relayed to you by trom@lists.newciv.org >>>>> ************ >>>>> >>>>> Hi David >>>>> The book "The Creation of Human Ability" contains a list of self >>>>> evident truths derived from the "Logics and Axioms". >>>>> >>>>> Item 16 is >>>>> >>>>> 16. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE POSTULATION OF THE AS- >>>>> IS- NESS OF ANY EXISTENCE AND THE PARTS THEREOF. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So Hubbard did present a method to un-mock a postulate. >>>>> >>>>> The book is downloadable as a pdf here: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/195 >>>>> 4%20CREATION%20OF%20HUMAN%20ABILITY.pdf >>>>> >>>>> Sincerely >>>>> >>>>> Pete McLaughlin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> TROM mailing list >>>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TROM mailing list >>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> TROM mailing list >>> TROM@lists.newciv.org >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >>> >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20170121/c522eb12/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TROM mailing list >> TROM@lists.newciv.org >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >> >> >> End of TROM Digest, Vol 147, Issue 12 >> ************************************* > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > TROM@lists.newciv.org > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
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