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Thanks Robin and Karalee for the diligent help.
Below are the answers, first to Robin, then to Karalee. Regarding Robin's comment: I think I got this now. My ignorance about e-meter auditing caused this confusion. I developed this intuition that is basically sensing an almost instantaneous feeling of boredom (sometimes annoyance - which I consider to be overrun) which is different of some uncomfortable sensation (a repulsive sensation which is different to the annoying sensation of overrun). When I get the boring one 3 times in a row during a command sequence I consider that as 'no more change', and that is the quickest way for me to determine the end of a process. The difference between emeter read and 'no change' point now I think is: *The emeter read in scientology* = Trommer's mind feedback to a command, an indicator of how the trommer is regarding a subject or an incident and other similar ones. *The end phenomena in scientology* = No more change point in trom You said this has nothing to do with no-meter auditing, but I still think it has, at least for my way of auditing, because now I can know exactly which change I should consider the most important to pay attention to: the one that happens almost instantly after the execution of the command. So this instant reaction would reveal the somatic most distinctly. Again, this complication could be a peculiarity of my case as perhaps most cases can clearly see the significant change or reaction from the start; I couldn't. It was very clarifying your explanation of how to go about to measure communication lag. I assume that would be an entirely alternative method for identifying the 'no change' point; because it would depend solely on comparing a time difference. Regarding Karalee's comment: I think I get what you're saying, and I also admire your honesty about your own mind. Sometimes I drop RI after I get bored, but with other negative manifestations still present. My chronic sensation could indeed be incomplete RI; an incompleteness which could also have been impairing my ability to observe change sometimes. Perhaps a pc with depleted importances would be equivalent to a meter with lots of latency built in... Marcus 2017-03-28 9:00 GMT-03:00 <[email protected]>: > Send TROM mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. How to Security check 6111C02 - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 149, > Issue 5) (The Resolution of Mind list) > 2. For Marcus Re Change Occurring (The Resolution of Mind list) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 07:06:48 +0200 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TROM1] How to Security check 6111C02 - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol > 149, Issue 5) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; > delsp=yes > > Dear Marcus, > > the tape lecture from 1961 you're referring to is not obsolete. > The e-meter which was in use at that time was the Mark 6 model. > When I got my C.o.S. academy training we used the Quantum Mk8 and > I remember a fellow student had one of those "antique" machines > in a wooden case to show it to us (I think it was an US Mk6 > with a mechanical Tone Arm counter and a blue front cover) - a > real curiosity, like from another time and age. Never the less > the thing did what it was designed for. > > In the lecture Ron talks mainly about the difference between > instant reads and latent reads on the meter. (Read refers to a > needle reaction on the meter.) The auditor is only interested in > the instant reads which are those appearing immediately after the > auditing question had been uttered or an item of an assessment- > list that had been spoken out. One allows not more than a tiny fraction > of a second for the read to appear. If a read appears later, then it > is a "latent read" and one never takes that as a valid read. > > Your question is not quite clear to me because you mention that > you are not very familiar with emeters. So I assume you do not use > one for your processing (and it is not a requirement for TROM anyway). > So it seems to me that you had something mixed up here. The whole > issue of "change" that appears while running a process has nothing > to do with needle reaction times or delays in needle reactions. > The issue of "change" - or no change - is important in regard of > "flatness" (when you should end a certain process) of the auditing > activity at hand. And a change in that regard is just any change. > E.g. a mood change, an appearance or disappearance or intensity variation > of a somatic, .... and last but not least a change in communication lag > (which is the time delay between the uttering of the auditing command > or question and it's execution or valid answering). As a general rule > you can take it, that at least three consecutive equal communication lags > are regarded as "no change" - which indicates that the activity is flat. > At least for the time being. The same process can produce more change > later when you have run something else in the meantime. But if you > feel fine about the activity you leave it alone and go on to the next > step or end the session. > > You mention "... chronically anxious and probably neurotic so I always > had sensations in abundance at all times ..." well, if this does not > change or resolve in one session or with one specific activity (like e.g. > RI) it can be regarded as a "no change". It seems to be something of > a greater magnitude - case wise. So you can assume it will require some > more work to resolve. More than can be done in one session or perhaps > more than can be done in one intensive. Never the less you will probably > register fluctuations overlaying the general abundance of sensations. > > So it seem to me that the material in the tape lecture does not really > apply > to your auditing. > > Best regards > > Robin > > ------- > > > On Mon, 27 Mar 2017 14:00:03 +0200, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Send TROM mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Changes - Question about old data (The Resolution of Mind list) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2017 17:29:08 -0300 > > From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [TROM1] Changes - Question about old data > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > I came across an interesting datum about changes. Lrh once mentioned in > > an > > old auditor course paper (How to Security check 6111C02), something along > > these lines: the only response that you should consider in the emeter is > > that one that happens within the first tenth of a second (considering you > > had an standard emeter for that time - I dont know much about emeters let > > alone their evolution). > > > > So that gave me an insight I didnt have from the beginning of my > > clearing > > journey. I did develop an intuition regarding changes which is in > > accordance with this datum, but nevertheless I didnt have noticed that > > other changes could be disregatded. Example I'm chronically anxious and > > probably neurotic so I always had sensations in abundance at all times > > confusing my judgement; and also I always considered slower changes like > > physiological changes as in the case when I do RI. > > > > Could someone comment on the current validity or perhaps obsoleteness of > > this? > > > > Thanks > > > > Marcus > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/ > 20170326/537ac2fb/attachment-0001.html> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TROM mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > > > > End of TROM Digest, Vol 149, Issue 5 > > ************************************ > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2017 07:44:23 -0400 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TROM1] For Marcus Re Change Occurring > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello, Marcus. It's great to hear you address your mind with such > detachment. > > Robin will surely respond and answer you well. > > In my own experience the first thing that comes to mind when the auditing > question is asked to myself is usually very profitable to > address/timebreak. > > My experience with RI is to stop once the mind goes quiet, which it does. > How is it working for you? > > As I've been nulling the IP of beating myself up vs indulging/aggrandizing > myself, there is more and more appreciation for gradients. > > "Observe a being's inner turmoil and contemplate their return" Tao Te > Ching, from our old friend, Lao Tszu. > > karalee > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/ > 20170328/a8fc9dc2/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > End of TROM Digest, Vol 149, Issue 6 > ************************************ >
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