Dear Brother David, Who says they ever
enter heaven. I can’t find in the Bible where anyone ever enters heaven
even after the resurrection, John 1:18 “No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared
[him].” Jesus comes to set up His Kingdom and ruler-ship is continued in
time throughout the ages of the ages, 1 Corinthians 15:23-26, “But every
man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's
at his coming. Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the
kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all
authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his
feet. The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.”
The Father’s House is the Church, and it is in His
Father’s House that He is preparing us for future ministry in the
Kingdom. It is wrong to regard the many mansions as houses located in heaven.
The Heaven city to which we are marching will be located here on earth. These
are the rewards or many mansions He refers to in John 14:1-3, “Let not
your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's
house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to
prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come
again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.”
I have written an article entitled “My Father’s House.” James
Templeton
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dave
Sent: 28 October 2002 07:34
To: TruthTalk
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
Salvation---OLD POST #3
Dave wrote:
DAVEH: I'm changing the
subject line to reflect the nature of this post.
Carroll Moore wrote:
Glenn - My understanding from Mormons here on TT is that
Mormons do not believe they are saved. They do not believe in a past or
present salvation. Jeff, a Mormon says he are not saved. They only
believe in a future salvation.
*
Yes -I would agree that this is their belief also- I have yet to untangle this
from justification by works unto sanctification
DAVEH: I hope you don't mind
me interjecting at this point, Carroll. I think I should clarify my
beliefs regarding salvation.
As I have stated before, I don't
think anybody is ultimately saved until after the resurrection, at which time
they enter heaven. Until Christ's resurrection and atoning sacrifice, it
was not possible for anybody to reach heaven. So when (2000 years ago) he
made it possible for us to return to heaven, in a past sense we WERE then saved
from having no hope of salvation.
Had Jesus not been born, lived a
perfect life, died and then was resurrected........None of us would be able to
reach heaven. That is why it is by his grace we are saved.
So, who is salvation
for.....? Those who believe on his name. What does that
mean......? Those who truly believe (as opposed to those who know the
truth, but fail/refuse to act upon it) are those who love him and keep his
commandments.......
"If ye love me, keep my
commandments." (Jn 14:15)
.......and one of those commandments is baptism of
both water and the spirit. (Jn 3:5) And as I have previously
stated, water baptism is a covenant we make with the Lord of our acceptance of
his redeeming sacrifice. Without the 'washing our sins' effect of our
water baptism into the Lord's kingdom, we effectively have not covenanted to
take upon ourselves his name and in return receive a forgiveness of our
sins. Therefore, final salvation (entry to heaven) won't take effect
until after that happens. That does not detract from his part in our
salvation, because without his redeeming grace, salvation wouldn't be
possible. But it does allow consideration for our part in the salvation
process, viz., faith, repentance, baptism and the Holy Ghost. As Blaine
suggested, we are saved by by Christ AFTER all we can do. Until we attain
that ultimate salvation in our heavenly home, we are content to know that Jesus
provided the means of salvation, and walked the path leading us to salvation in
heaven, if we will but follow in his footsteps. And to fulfill all
righteousness, one of those footsteps led down into the waters of
baptism. Our responsibility is to keep his commandments and endure to the
end, at which point we will be saved from the Tempter's power by our
resurrection into a heavenly state of peace in the presence of the Lord's love.
-so I will study their view-If I turn into a Mormon doing
this you and David are going to be my first converts if I have to follow you
guys to the edge of the Earth not giving even one minute of rest- I will be in
your dreams and worst nightmares-(-:
* Yes
I do Gary-But what am I concuring to? If you mean present tense salvation-Yes I
do agree-I believe there is a hint of difference between us and Monmonism
in that we believe Jesus paid for our sins while dying on the cross for
atonement and Mormons seem to believe we have atonment because he arose. I
could be wrong just a thought.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
