You are right, but if we cannot understand the little things, how can we understand the big things? I think this exchange was good, even though not on a major doctrinal point.From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:05:12 -0500Okay Perry. This is not some major doctrinal point.
Have you ever explored "seduction"? I view it the same way.
Not that I care to discuss :-)
--Marlin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles P. Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism
> Marlin,
>
> I think the Genesis account of the fall is simpler than you make it out
> to be. Satan told a lie. Eve chose to believe Satan rather than God.
>
> There was no cognitive dissonance. Eve knew exactly what she was doing.
> Satan knew exactly wht he was doing, and Adam knew exactly what he was
> doing. There was no hypnosis or cognitive dissonance. In fact, cognitive
> dissonance and hypnosis are two separate things...not related...cognitive
> dissonance is not a form of hypnosis.
>
> Perry
>
>
> >From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism
> >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:09:13 -0500
> >
> >"I have never before heard an interpretation of these verses that said
> >........."
> >
> >Good! Why re-hash what you already know. Perhaps there is something you
> >have not been told before that may be edifying to you.
> >
> >Pssssssssssssssssssst. Look at the fruit. See how good it is to the
eyes.
> > Focussss. It will make you wize. Your eyes are getting heavy. Take.
> >Eat. Pssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst.
> >
> >Cognitive dissonance is a form of hypnotism. This is like the deception
of
> >Satan. He distorts reality. If I may use a simplistic understanding of
> >the term "cult," wherein mind control is involved, I propose that the
> >followers are hypnotized and deceived by the false doctrines that are
being
> >suspended before their eyes, of course mixed with some truth to make them
> >palatable.
> >
> >As to whether this is "eisegesis" or not, I'll look for a definition.
Here
> >is one from a Google search.
> >
> >http://www.creationists.org/eisegesis.html
> >
> >Definition of Eisegesis
> >
> >"Eisegesis is the approach to Bible interpretation where the interpreter
> >reads something into the text that isn't there. This often occurs when
one
> >approaches the Bible with personal biases about the issues being studied.
> >Instead of letting the Bible speak for itself, and being open to what it
> >actually has to say, the person practicing eisegesis "filters" his
> >interpretation to fit his own personal world view paradigm. "
> >
> >All right. Perhaps I am running with this one, superimposing our modern
> >vocabulary over an ancient narrative. What I intend to do is to edify
you,
> >noting a pattern that I have thought much about. Your insight, or
> >"eisegesis" about "a persuasive deceiver" and a woman's "pride" is not
> >invalid, but there is much more here.
> >
> >The candidate has to be willing and submissive to suggestion. Eve was.
> >According to some perspectives, the hypnotist cannot make you do
something
> >that you would not ordinarily do. The method of causing the candidate to
> >focus, is an act that facilitates distortion. Unfortunately, the
Serpent's
> >distortion was to cause Eve to disregard the commandments of God. Thus,
> >the first man and woman became exiled from paradise and angels were set
to
> >prevent them from entering the garden.
> >Blood was shed to cover their nakedness, pointing to the Blood of Jesus
> >that would cover our sins, commandment breaking. Able understood, but
was
> >slain. His assailant, Cain, was further exiled. Man's disobedience has
> >always caused further exile from God.
> >
> >We need our Redeemer.
> >
> >Love,
> >
> >Marlin
> >
> >P.S. Plugging into a Google search my statement above, "Cognitive
> >dissonance is a form of hypnotism," brought up some interesting sites
that
> >correspond to my above thoughts on this matter.
> >
> >http://www-home.cc.duq.edu/~thames/humcomm/ratio.htm
> >
> >"The conscious realization of inconsistency makes us uncomfortable
because
> >it is in our nature to be consistent. We experience conscious consistency
> >as "harmony" (consonance) and conscious inconsistency as "discord"
> >(dissonance). ......"
> >"The popular conception of hypnosis is similar to that of
> >brainwashing-while not as powerful as brainwashing, there is still an
> >exaggerated sense of the power of hypnosis and an air of mystery
> >surrounding it; while not as sinister, there is ambivalence about its
use.
> >"
> >
> >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/1833/persuasion.htm
> >
> >"What else about persuasion? I suppose I have to at least mention
Cognitive
> >Dissonance Theory. This theory states that should behaviour and thinking
> >(cognition) differ, then an uncumfortable condition known as 'dissonance'
> >will arise. Either behaviour or cognition will be altered to reduce the
> >dissonance and bring behaviour and thinking back into line with each
other.
> >This one's on all the salesmen's reading list - pre-decisional
dissonance,
> >post-decisional dissonance, etc, etc. The point is that you can
manipulate
> >someone's behaviour by changing their thinking, or change their thinking
by
> >changing their behaviour. This is the sort of very simple theory that I
> >would expect to be used in 'brainwashing'. "
> >
> >"Then there's hypnosis. Eriksonian non-directive hypnosis is
fantastically
> >strong and effective largely because the victim is unaware and
unprepared.
> >Routinely practiced by doctors and dentists, this is the origin of Neuro
> >Linguistic Programming (NLP) although NLP is a popularised, diluted form.
> >This is persusion only in as much as you have to induce (or persuade) a
> >trance. This can be done during the act of shaking hands. Then you're in
> >charge. Absolutely. Totally. Goodbye personality, goodbye volition. Hello
> >Post-hypnotic suggestion. Stage hypnotists are well worth watching
although
> >the style and method is totally different. "What's your favourite fruit?
> >Apple? Here eat this beautiful apple (onion) then". Stage hypnotism works
> >like this. Test the audience to select the most responsive ones. Once on
> >stage, the audience demands the expected response from those selected,
and
> >it works. " [emphasis mine]
> >
> >Pssssssssssssssssssssssst.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Charles P. Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:45 AM
> >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism
> >
> >
> > > Sorry, Marlin, I just do not see a hypnotist in the verses you quoted.
I
> >see
> > > a persuasive deceiver and a woman whose pride caused her to want to be
> >like
> > > God enough to disobey His commanment not to eat the fruit.
> > >
> > > I have never before heard an interpretation of these verses that said
> >that
> > > the serpent hypnotised Eve, or put her into a trance, or any other
such
> > > similar isogesis of the passage. Where do you get these ideas that are
> >not
> > > in the text?
> > >
> > > Perry
> > >
> > > >From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism
> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:41:27 -0500
> > > >
> > > >The first hypnotissssssssst. They gave power over to him. They
> >yeilded
> > > >thier own will over to him. Pssssssssssssssst. Psssssssssssssst.
> > > >
> > > >GEN 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the
field
> > > >which
> > > > the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea,
> >hath
> > > >God
> > > > said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
> > > >GEN 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the
> >fruit of
> > > >the
> > > > trees of the garden:
> > > >GEN 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of
the
> > > >garden,
> > > > God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye
> >touch
> > > >it,
> > > > lest ye die.
> > > >GEN 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely
> >die:
> > > >GEN 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then
your
> > > >eyes
> > > > shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good
and
> > > >evil.
> > > >GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for food,
> >and
> > > >that
> > > > it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired
to
> > > >make
> > > > [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
> >and
> > > >gave
> > > > also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
> > > >GEN 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that
> >they
> > > > [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and
made
> > > > themselves aprons.
> > >
> > >
>
>
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