I still have no idea how hypnotism works. With it, the Controller seems to be able to turn a person on and off like a lightswitch--so weird! Yes we can be seduced by Sin. We can also be seduced into hypnotism, which is probably sinful, too. But are there valid medical uses for it? (And we know who the Seducer is.) Is hypnotism just a spiritual thing, or is there some physical aspect of the brain that can provide an explanation for it? I guess that is way outside the scope of TT. Izzy
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles P. Locke Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:07 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism >From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism >Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:05:12 -0500 > >Okay Perry. This is not some major doctrinal point. You are right, but if we cannot understand the little things, how can we understand the big things? I think this exchange was good, even though not on a major doctrinal point. > >Have you ever explored "seduction"? I view it the same way. > Not that I care to discuss :-) >--Marlin > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charles P. Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:21 PM >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism > > > > Marlin, > > > > I think the Genesis account of the fall is simpler than you make it >out > > to be. Satan told a lie. Eve chose to believe Satan rather than God. > > > > There was no cognitive dissonance. Eve knew exactly what she was >doing. > > Satan knew exactly wht he was doing, and Adam knew exactly what he was > > doing. There was no hypnosis or cognitive dissonance. In fact, cognitive > > dissonance and hypnosis are two separate things...not >related...cognitive > > dissonance is not a form of hypnosis. > > > > Perry > > > > > > >From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism > > >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:09:13 -0500 > > > > > >"I have never before heard an interpretation of these verses that said > > >........." > > > > > >Good! Why re-hash what you already know. Perhaps there is something >you > > >have not been told before that may be edifying to you. > > > > > >Pssssssssssssssssssst. Look at the fruit. See how good it is to the >eyes. > > > Focussss. It will make you wize. Your eyes are getting heavy. >Take. > > >Eat. Pssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst. > > > > > >Cognitive dissonance is a form of hypnotism. This is like the >deception >of > > >Satan. He distorts reality. If I may use a simplistic understanding >of > > >the term "cult," wherein mind control is involved, I propose that the > > >followers are hypnotized and deceived by the false doctrines that are >being > > >suspended before their eyes, of course mixed with some truth to make >them > > >palatable. > > > > > >As to whether this is "eisegesis" or not, I'll look for a definition. >Here > > >is one from a Google search. > > > > > >http://www.creationists.org/eisegesis.html > > > > > >Definition of Eisegesis > > > > > >"Eisegesis is the approach to Bible interpretation where the >interpreter > > >reads something into the text that isn't there. This often occurs when >one > > >approaches the Bible with personal biases about the issues being >studied. > > >Instead of letting the Bible speak for itself, and being open to what >it > > >actually has to say, the person practicing eisegesis "filters" his > > >interpretation to fit his own personal world view paradigm. " > > > > > >All right. Perhaps I am running with this one, superimposing our >modern > > >vocabulary over an ancient narrative. What I intend to do is to edify >you, > > >noting a pattern that I have thought much about. Your insight, or > > >"eisegesis" about "a persuasive deceiver" and a woman's "pride" is not > > >invalid, but there is much more here. > > > > > >The candidate has to be willing and submissive to suggestion. Eve was. > > >According to some perspectives, the hypnotist cannot make you do >something > > >that you would not ordinarily do. The method of causing the candidate >to > > >focus, is an act that facilitates distortion. Unfortunately, the >Serpent's > > >distortion was to cause Eve to disregard the commandments of God. >Thus, > > >the first man and woman became exiled from paradise and angels were set >to > > >prevent them from entering the garden. > > >Blood was shed to cover their nakedness, pointing to the Blood of Jesus > > >that would cover our sins, commandment breaking. Able understood, but >was > > >slain. His assailant, Cain, was further exiled. Man's disobedience >has > > >always caused further exile from God. > > > > > >We need our Redeemer. > > > > > >Love, > > > > > >Marlin > > > > > >P.S. Plugging into a Google search my statement above, "Cognitive > > >dissonance is a form of hypnotism," brought up some interesting sites >that > > >correspond to my above thoughts on this matter. > > > > > >http://www-home.cc.duq.edu/~thames/humcomm/ratio.htm > > > > > >"The conscious realization of inconsistency makes us uncomfortable >because > > >it is in our nature to be consistent. We experience conscious >consistency > > >as "harmony" (consonance) and conscious inconsistency as "discord" > > >(dissonance). ......" > > >"The popular conception of hypnosis is similar to that of > > >brainwashing-while not as powerful as brainwashing, there is still an > > >exaggerated sense of the power of hypnosis and an air of mystery > > >surrounding it; while not as sinister, there is ambivalence about its >use. > > >" > > > > > >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/1833/persuasion.htm > > > > > >"What else about persuasion? I suppose I have to at least mention >Cognitive > > >Dissonance Theory. This theory states that should behaviour and >thinking > > >(cognition) differ, then an uncumfortable condition known as >'dissonance' > > >will arise. Either behaviour or cognition will be altered to reduce the > > >dissonance and bring behaviour and thinking back into line with each >other. > > >This one's on all the salesmen's reading list - pre-decisional >dissonance, > > >post-decisional dissonance, etc, etc. The point is that you can >manipulate > > >someone's behaviour by changing their thinking, or change their >thinking >by > > >changing their behaviour. This is the sort of very simple theory that I > > >would expect to be used in 'brainwashing'. " > > > > > >"Then there's hypnosis. Eriksonian non-directive hypnosis is >fantastically > > >strong and effective largely because the victim is unaware and >unprepared. > > >Routinely practiced by doctors and dentists, this is the origin of >Neuro > > >Linguistic Programming (NLP) although NLP is a popularised, diluted >form. > > >This is persusion only in as much as you have to induce (or persuade) a > > >trance. This can be done during the act of shaking hands. Then you're >in > > >charge. Absolutely. Totally. Goodbye personality, goodbye volition. >Hello > > >Post-hypnotic suggestion. Stage hypnotists are well worth watching >although > > >the style and method is totally different. "What's your favourite >fruit? > > >Apple? Here eat this beautiful apple (onion) then". Stage hypnotism >works > > >like this. Test the audience to select the most responsive ones. Once >on > > >stage, the audience demands the expected response from those selected, >and > > >it works. " [emphasis mine] > > > > > >Pssssssssssssssssssssssst. > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Charles P. Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:45 AM > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, Marlin, I just do not see a hypnotist in the verses you >quoted. >I > > >see > > > > a persuasive deceiver and a woman whose pride caused her to want to >be > > >like > > > > God enough to disobey His commanment not to eat the fruit. > > > > > > > > I have never before heard an interpretation of these verses that >said > > >that > > > > the serpent hypnotised Eve, or put her into a trance, or any other >such > > > > similar isogesis of the passage. Where do you get these ideas that >are > > >not > > > > in the text? > > > > > > > > Perry > > > > > > > > >From: "Marlin Halverson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] hypnotism > > > > >Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:41:27 -0500 > > > > > > > > > >The first hypnotissssssssst. They gave power over to him. They > > >yeilded > > > > >thier own will over to him. Pssssssssssssssst. Psssssssssssssst. > > > > > > > > > >GEN 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the >field > > > > >which > > > > > the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, >Yea, > > >hath > > > > >God > > > > > said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? > > > > >GEN 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the > > >fruit of > > > > >the > > > > > trees of the garden: > > > > >GEN 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of >the > > > > >garden, > > > > > God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall >ye > > >touch > > > > >it, > > > > > lest ye die. > > > > >GEN 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not >surely > > >die: > > > > >GEN 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then >your > > > > >eyes > > > > > shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good >and > > > > >evil. > > > > >GEN 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree [was] good for >food, > > >and > > > > >that > > > > > it [was] pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be >desired >to > > > > >make > > > > > [one] wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did >eat, > > >and > > > > >gave > > > > > also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. > > > > >GEN 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew >that > > >they > > > > > [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and >made > > > > > themselves aprons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. 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