Will be praying for you in your street preaching in England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales. When do you leave and how long do you expect to be there? Keep us posted if you can as to the opportunities which the Lord opens up and opposition which you face along the way!
When you wrote that the vine, the olive tree, the election and Israel were all one and the same...
I wrote:"When the Spirit uses distinct terms, He intends distinct meanings."
To which you responded:"But brother we are talking saved or lost here. Not saved ,lost,or Jew."
The Lord Jesus clearly stated that HE was "the vine" and we (believers) are the branches. We are NOT the vine! Israel is not the vine! Nor are branches ever spoken of in scripture as being "grafted into" the vine! Grafting is a subject only taken up in Romans 11 relative to the olive tree. So the vine is NOT the same as the olive tree, nor is Israel the same as the olive!
There are some Israelites (natural branches) who were broken off, so it is evident that whatever the olive tree is, it is not all regenerate people because it had natural branches! So the olive tree cannot be "saved" people as you suggest! That is why I said, and Romans 11 teaches that the olive tree is "the election" and NOT Israel! Israel, the whole nation (rebels and all) was elected (chosen) by God to be a special people unto Himself. The nation (the totality of Israelites) was not elected to be saved. But when Israel rebelled against God in unbelief, the natural branches were cut off and gentile believers who are the people of God were grafted in. They were not grafted into ISRAEL, but into the "olive tree" of God's election!
Further on, you wrote:"We seem to be going in circles here-The point of this is not who was cast out-but rather who was grafted into the promise-Who but those that believe in Jesus Christ-And in doing so we are to believe his words and he said to keep God's commandments-so we are to do so-including the 4th commandment."
Dear Dean, NO ONE was ever grafted into a promise! Rather branches are grafted into an olive tree! But those who believe God RECEIVE the promise which is the Holy Spirit. See Joel chapter 2, the text of Peter's message on the Day of Pentecost recorded in Acts 2.
But back to the sabbath commandment. Yes, I agree with you it is a commandment of God. So is the circumcision of male children on the 8th day. But even though circumcision was commanded by God, Gentiles have no obligation to that commandment because it was not given to them! It was given to the physical descendents of Abraham, both Jews and Arabs today rightfully practice circumcision as God commanded them. But those who are not physical descendents of Abraham have no such obligation, never have and never will!
In like manner, Gentiles have no obligation to obey the commandment relative to the 7th day sabbath because it was given to Israel alone and NOT to all peoples! However the other 9 of the "Ten Commandments" HAVE been addressed by God to Gentiles elsewhere in scripture outside of Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5. If I am wrong in this, I am willing to be corrected by scripture. Can you show me anywhere in scripture where any Gentile man or woman or non-Israelite nation is ever instructed or commanded by God to keep the 7th day sabbath???
As I have emphasized many times in this discussion there are many commands of God which are IMPOSSIBLE TO BE OBEYED by any one person! For example, God commands men to pray and prophesy with their heads uncovered, but the same God commands women to pray and prophecy with their heads covered! In order to know which command is to be obeyed, one must know whether they are a man or a woman and know what men and women are commanded to do! So too Jews and Arabs are commanded by God to be physically circumcised, but no such commandment is given to Gentiles. See Acts 15. Israelites are commanded to keep the 7th day sabbath, but Gentiles have no such obligation! So in order to be obedient to the commandments of God relative to circumcision and sabbath keeping, one must know what people God required to obey these commands. If one is not among the people commanded by God to do these things, IT IS NO DISOBEDIENCE FOR SUCH NOT TO PRACTICE CIRCUMCISION AND NOT TO OBSERVE THE 7TH DAY SABBATH!
Dean, you wrote further:"The Gentiles are included in the Abrahamic covenant as well as the Jews,and therefore the Jews have no exclusive right to the blessing's of Gods kingdom ...Jews were not the whole of the promise...Abraham is the father of many nations."
Brother, please be specific here. From Genesis 17, please tell me specificly what portions of the Abrahamic covenant have to do with me as a Gentile. (Circumcision?) It is certainly true that many nations came of Abraham! He had many sons in addition to Ishmael and Isaac. All of these peoples were to practice circumcision, but not nations which did not descend from Abraham! But we have no indication in scripture that Adam, Seth, Noah, Job, Abraham, Isaac or Jacob EVER observed a 7th day sabbath! Such was never commanded till long after they were all dead! (Exodus 16 and 31) The sabbath commandment was given to a specific and special nation (Israel) as a sign between them and God! (Ex.31:13,17) It was not given to ANY OTHER PEOPLE! So other peoples can never be disobedient to a command that was given to somebody else! (When a father tells HIS SON to be in the house by a certain time at night, THE NEIGHBOUR BOY whose own father has given him a later curfew is not disobedient if he is not in by the time of his friend's earlier curfew! He is only disobedient if he violates his own curfew.)
Your brother in Christ, Bruce
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