jt: I stand corrected DavidM, yes you did send two of the same verses among the six. I must have been tired when responding this afternoon..
dm:You asked me if I could share more than one verse for a theology of the work of regeneration through baptism. So, I shared the following passages: Acts 2:38-41 KJV Acts 8:12 KJV Acts 22:16 KJV Romans 6:3-6 KJV Galatians 3:26-27 KJV 1 Peter 3:21 KJV Later you wrote: So... 1 Peter 3:21 must be understood in the light of the following: Colossians 2:11, Romans 6:3-8, Galatians 3:27 jt: On second thought I would remove Galatians 3:27 above because I believe this is not referring to water baptism but rather a spiritual baptism into Christ. There is more than one kind of baptism. dm: Notice that two of these passages (Romans 6 and Galatians 3) are the same ones that I shared with you to show the link between baptism and regeneration. Romans 6 associates baptism with being baptized into Christ's death. It uses the term "buried with him by baptism." It speaks of our old man being crucified with him, the same analogy that Peter uses in speaking of how Noah was saved by / through / via water. It then speaks of the resurrection and being raised with him. jt: Yes I believe we do agree on the above in all but calling it symbolic. I don't think there is anything wrong with saying it is symbolic and/or figurative but you don't seem to approve of that. dm: Galatians 3:27 says, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." So it associates baptism with putting on Christ. jt: I do not believe this refers to water baptism because in other places putting on Christ involves putting off and putting on some things which are not possible by water ie: "But put ye on the Lord jesus Christ and make not provision for the flesh to fulfil the lusts thereof" (Romans 13:14) "But now ye also put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not to one another seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds. Put on therefore as the elect of God, holy and beloved bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness, of mind, meekness, longsuffering" (Colossians 3:8,9,12) David Miller wrote: None of these passages teach that baptism is only an outward symbol of an inward experience that had already taken place sometime before. Judy wrote: The implication is there - It symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. We certainly don't die physically down there as he did on the cross and we don't go from the water to a tomb physically do we? So it is a symbolic representation of this reality. I have to wonder if how many who go under the water these days realize what it is all about. We agree that baptism has much symbolism. That is not the problem. The problem is when you relegate baptism to merely being symbolic, then baptism loses all its power. The implication of these verses is that there is something powerful going on with baptism, that it is much more than some outward symbolism of some past inward event. jt: If there is something powerful going on it is between the Lord and the person involved but I don't believe we can count on it or promise ppl that if they go under the water that God will do something powerful for them, this is what encourages religious ritual like the Hindus all bathing in the ganges because that river is so powerful. dm: If baptism is merely a symbolic outward expression and not meant to do anything inwardly, then nobody will enter baptism with faith and none of these teachings of Scripture concerning the inward work of baptism will be true in their lives. jt: The the work must be done inwardly BEFORE baptism and this should be the source of faith. I've always given & seen testimonies of faith BEFORE baptism. It is primarily an act of obedience. dm: It becomes a self fulfilling teaching of sorts in the same way that when people are taught that Jesus does not heal anymore, then they do not experience healing. jt: What do you think we should teach them to expect then? Should we go back to the days of Luther? According to him baptism even conferred all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit - yet I've not read or heard of anyone back then coming out of the water speaking in tongues, have you? Grace and Peace, Judy ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
