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DAVEH: My latest comments are
in GREEN.......
Judy Taylor wrote:
DAVEH:
Like I said before, I'm trying to figure out why Protestants believe as
they do. I sometimes repetitively ask questions that may seem frustrating
to you because the answers I often times receive don't really tell me 'why'. Judy:
DaveH I think you are leaving 'faith' out of the equation. You are
trying to use logic and reason and this is not the way we receive 'understanding'
from the Lord.
DAVEH: You are correct, Judy.
You see, I'm not trying to understand the Lord. From my LDS perspective,
I feel comfortable in my understanding of his gospel. I am using
logic and reason in trying to understand what you and other Protestants
believe.
If you don't get it from Him you are on a hopeless mission.
He says that we must believe FIRST before we will KNOW whether or not the
doctrine is valid.
DAVEH: I do believe, and
I know what I believe it true. That however has little to do with
what I am seeking from you and other Protestants.
Terry: I am trying to save you
from eternity in Hell.
DAVEH: I realize that.
I think if you and others in TT would not feel quite so compelled to do
that, you would not get quite so frustrated. IOW......I think your
frustration is self induced. Judy: I would agree here
- also I don't see this kind of rabid zeal as a good testimony to the peace
of God in the life of the believer.
DAVEH: This aspect of Protestantism
is simply fascinating to me. I suppose "rabid zeal"
zeal can be found in many religious paradigms, including those outside
Christendom, as is currently being witnessed by fanatical Islamism.
That doesn't interest me nearly as much as what is found within Christianity
though. For a religion that purportedly preaches love of fellow man,
turning the other cheek, doing unto others......etc, how does that translate
into whacko displays of unChristian behavior? If I came to your place
of worship, Judy, and then tried to humiliate you as you prepare to commune
with the Lord, how would you respond to my whacko efforts? Would
I make points with you, for denigrating that which you hold sacred?
Furthermore, what would your neighbors think of my efforts. Would
I be endearing them to the 'gospel of Christ' with my claim that I'm acting
like a lunatic as a show of my brotherly love for you?
Hmmmmmm........you are right....I
am leaving faith out of this equation. I'm purely looking at the
above irrational behavior from a logical and rational standpoint.
I see no need to let faith enter into the muck in which such protesters
feel compelled to wallow.
Terry:
Not only you, but those that you influence.
DAVEH: Hmmmmmm......Does
that mean you think I'm confusing other TTers? I thought most TTers
were pretty set in their beliefs. Right off hand, I don't know of
any who have changed the way they think because of anything I've said.
(Though I would hope some have changed the way they treat other folks due
to the respect I afford them.) Judy: Good point....
DAVEH: You are not making
any friends (except me!) in TT by such careless comments, Judy!!!
:-) Terry: Our Lord
says that we will give an account for every idle word we speak (or write).
IF you are wrong in your beliefs, that means every time you say something
to influence another to your way of thinking,
DAVEH: I don't think I've
tried doing that at all. I've certainly expressed my beliefs (often
times when asked), but my questions have been to learn why others believe
as they do, not to change their beliefs.
you are heaping coals on your own
head, and I am causing those coals to add up just by conversing with you.
DAVEH: IMHO, that is a silly
notion. I can't help but think that is not a theory rooted in Protestantism,
let alone based in Christianity. Judy: It's not.
DAVEH: Thank you for the
affirmation, Judy.
The idea is that when we love our enemies rather than retaliate
toward them we heap coals upon their heads and it is found in Proverbs
25:22 and Romans 12:20. It has to do with overcoming evil with good
- which I am more and more coming to believe is an alien concept on the
TT list.
DAVEH: I discovered that
long ago. I'm not here to overcome evil, but as you know, I'm considered
to be evil due to my beliefs, religion and resistance to be easily persuaded
to change my religious affiliation and beliefs. I don't want to reveal
too much about myself (weaknesses) here, but if somebody wants to change
my thinking, they'll have a lot better chance of it by being rational and
respectful in the exchanges they have with me than if they get in my face
and act like arrogant whackos.Terry:
Unfortunately, I cannot twist your arm or beat you about the head until
you see the truth. God does not work that way. To complicate
the issue, you already consider yourself to have the truth,
DAVEH: Hmmmm......this seems
to be a one way street......you've got it all, and I've got none of it.
I respectfully disagree.Terry:
so this is more complicated than trying to reach someone who is not encumbered
with preconceived ideas. The logical thing to do would be to write you
off and abandon the effort, but I am not comfortable doing that.
Maybe I just need to give the Holy Spirit time to work. I know the
Lord has you in this group for a reason, and I doubt that it is His plan
to have you here so that we have someone to look down on. He doesn't
work that way either. I pray that it is so that someday the little
light will go on and you will be saved. I know that you are quite
comfortable with what you now believe, but I was once very comfortable
in my sin too. Respectfully, but ineffectively, Terry
DAVEH: Thank you for your
honesty, Terry. I think you will rest easier when you realize that
TT is not a forum dedicated to saving stubborn Mormons. I do appreciate
your concern for my salvation, however. I think your efforts may
be a little misplaced though. But I'm not here to try to dissuade
you from what you believe. If you do decide to write me off, I will
understand. One question
for you though.....Do you think hopeless guys like me should not be admitted
to TT? Or, are you OK with folks who think differently posting regularly?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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