David Miller wrote:
DAVEH wrote:DAVEH: Not at all. Used the term "some" to allow some of whom I'm discussing this topic with to think Paul may have been talking about fringe Christians. Personally, I think they may not have been on the edge of Christendom, but that is just supposition on my part, as well as conjecture on the part of those I discuss this with. In reality, the Bible neither says most Primitive Christians either practice it or not. It just refers to some who do.
> I have repeatedly pointed to vs 29 to show that the practice
> of some early Christians baptizing for the dead implies they
> believed baptism was necessary for salvation. Does that not
> strike you as a valid evidence of my contention that is a
> necessity for those who wish to return to heaven?What you seem to be overlooking here is that if we accepted your
premise, it would only mean that SOME CORINTHIANS (not all) believed
that baptism was necessary for salvation.
Very clearly, some thoughtDAVEH: I have trouble figuring out how to use the English language properly. For me to assume that what was written in 16th century English that had been translated from manuscripts a millennia older in another language is beyond my capabilities. A lot of the NT (and OT, for that matter) sounds a bit unusual to my untrained ear, so to differentiate this from other Biblical passages based strictly on the grammar used is not my cup of tea. I just don't quite see where it sounded all that unusual, and I gave my example in modern English.....which may not be a valid comparison......but it was the best I could do on short notice.
the salvation event, the resurrection, was already past. Some
Protestants today think that too. They are called Preterists.David Miller wrote:
>> I still think you are skirting around the language
>> and the use of the third person pronoun "they."DaveH wrote:
> Hey DavidM.......I am NOT a linguist. You definitely
> have me on shaky ground when you start talking grammar,
> linguisticks and all that 4-bit word stuff......I'm not trying to make it complicated. Just think about how you would
try to express what you would say in this treatise on the resurrection
being true. How would "baptism for the dead" be supportive of that
idea? If it was universally practiced, then Paul would have said, "what
shall WE do who baptize for the dead." This is especially true when we
see the first person being used extensively in the immediate context.
His use of third person suggests a different group.
DAVEH:DAVEH: In what time frame? Was that during the Primitive Christian era, or centuries thereafter?
> Then does it not seem likely the Bible would have condemned
> it at some point, as it did many other practices not in
> harmony with Christianity?No, because we know historically that the practice of baptism for the
dead was only done by some outlying sects within Christianity.
It hasDAVEH: Seems to me that for Paul to have used it in a positive sense in a letter to Christians, would have qualified it for a negative comment if it had been bad doctrine. Due to our respective biases, I think we may continue to disagree on this.
never really had much of a hold of any kind. Therefore, there is no
point in the Lord taking time to make it clear that it would be a
superstitious practice.
Most of his followers can see that clear enoughDAVEH: LOL.........Hmmmmmm.......when a guy as nice as you starts getting whipped with the short end of the denigrating stick, it makes me wonder how little they must think of me! (VBG)
by the light they have.DAVEH:
> Are you nuts, DavidM!!! What are some of the other TTers
> going to say (let alone think) when they hear YOU agreeing
> with a Mormon boy?!?!?!?! <VBG>I dunno. Maybe that my name is Beelzebub? :-)
"If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more--
shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25 KJV)Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
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Dave Hansen
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http://www.langlitz.com
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