> [Original Message] > From: David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 12/18/2003 9:09:50 PM > Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] *****Rebuke should be specific-Yes I agree. > > Dean wrote: > > I am sorry you cannot see that and as I haven't made > > it to heaven yet I will have to keep my distance from > > those tainted on this list-including you unless you > > stop this- which is sad because I believe we would > > have become great friends. > > Hey Dean, we are only talking. Why separate from me over talking about > these things? Shouldn't you separate from those who sin? Dean Writes: I consider the fact the DavH is allowed to dwell among the brethren as sin, David. To me it is a clear violation of the Bible-as it also was to J. Wesley. But as the Spirit of God has corrected me-thru prayer-I now realize he was giving a place here.by you-and that is his-not mine to take away.This sound familiar for some reason. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ > My point in bringing this question up was because I see a difference > between errant philosophy and errant action. While sound doctrine is > important (absolutely essential) to keep one walking in Godliness, I > don't think wrong beliefs in and of themselves are sin. For example, if > you believed that the moon was made out of cheese, I wouldn't say, "Get > away from me you evil man!" Dean write:$ But what does the Bible tell us about the moon-I don't feel that this is open to private interpretations as words have meanings. Do you see the difference? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- > That might be an extreme example, but it makes a point. I don't divide > from men who baptize infants or believe in King James Only or reject the > gifts of the Holy Spirit or frequent institutional churches or will only > attend home churches, etc. I don't even divide from the Kill > Abortionist Cult people, but you can be sure I rebuke the false > teaching. I would excommunicate someone who actually did a sinful > action like Paul Hill did, but not those who talk about it and explore > the philosophy of it. $ That is the difference between us David- I see a false teachers as the same as Paul Hill-You see P.Hill as a killer-I see DaveH as a killer also as I believe he is here to steal seeds of life-Remember the passage that had to do with not even wishing those that bring a false doctrine Good luck.While you/others on this site claim to me that DaveH is not teaching any false doctrine here. Consider what you stated to Judy in 'Love or Rebuke' dated 12/18/2003 10:02:13 pm " Ask DaveH. He teaches the same doctrine that you do." Which is it? Does he or doesn't here teach here?Or are you wanting to confuse the facts. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- > > In the many denominations of Christianity, errant ideas are rampant. If > we separated from everyone who thought about things in the wrong way, as > we matured and came to know more and more things, we would not be able > to have fellowship with anyone. In fact, we would become a god in our > own little world. I think this is exactly the sin of Joseph Smith. He > created his own world and own religion in his mind, and millions follow > that system to this day. $ I whole disagree with that statement-as the Bible is clear on these issues and once studied out on all issues. God isn't that unclear. > > I've looked through the list of errant doctrines of DaveH that you have > shared, and I'm still looking for the sin. Is there any particular sin > that you can point to? I'm not saying that these philosophies aren't > dangerous. They can lead to a great amount of sin. I share your > concern about these things, which is why I often take up many of these > topics and discuss them. But surely you can see that there is a > distinction between errant philosophy and someone who sins. > > Now DaveH has admitted that he continues to walk in sin, and that is > sufficient for me to know that he has not yet seen Jesus. However, > there are a whole lot of Christians who say the same thing. Not just > Judy. I think Kevin believes this way too. It seems that way from some > of his posts. Do we separate from everyone as soon as we realize that > they have some errant philosophy? I don't think so. The why did you claim him as a Christian in the last post? And why do you say he doesn't sin when you just admitted he does in the above post? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Kevin is King James Only, and you also were at one time, but I don't > think you are anymore. Do we divide over issues like this? Wouldn't it > be better just to talk about why we believe what we believe? $ Okay we can talk-I have a NASB, a NIV,a Koran,a Torah and others. But I preach and study out of the K.James as I believe it to be the word of God. You once told Jim Webber and I that the NASB was the best interpretation and after studying them out -I choose the KJ-but to my understanding Webber likes the NASB. I view then all as interpretations-some strong in some points and some strong in other points. But I love the KJ. I don't think that issues that have nothing to do with sin or warning should divide brethren-nor will I be drawn into a cult. Some issues have a low level of importance others are more serious. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------- > > To drive the point home, just look at the Judaizers in the book of > Galatians. Paul never urged excommunication over this false doctrine. > They disputed about it and disputed about it. Even when they went to > Jerusalem and doctrinally settled the matter with the apostles and > elders there, they still did not come back with excommunication for the > Judaizers. They simply taught the truth and said that the apostles and > elders in Jerusalem agree. And for Paul, this doctrine meant damnation > for the Galatians if they followed the false doctrine, yet, he never > excommunicated them. Why? Could it be that truth can stand up for > itself? $ I don't read it this way-I see Paul going up Jerusalem with Barnabas and rebuking Peter 2:11 and due to that rebuke the gospel of peace is vindicated. Later Peter teaches the same thing Paul did.In short Peter repented. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------- > > The thing that we separate over is actual sin. I think this is a very > important principle. Suppose someone stands up in church and says Jesus > never came; it was all a fairy tale. I don't excommunicate the man, I > stand up and show how he is wrong. The Scriptures teach that the elders > need to be able to exhort and convince the gainsayers (Titus 1:9). You > can't do that when you have excommunicated everyone who is in error in > their theology. The Scriptures also say that there must be heresies > among us to show who is approved of God. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- $ I believe there is actual sin here-When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit- they did it was sin . When God told me not to dwell with false teachers who bring another doctorine-I believe it is sin not to listen. God doesn't just lay down a bunch of rules-to study how we keep them -He instructs a better way and following these rules is for our benefit-and His glory. > > For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved > may be made manifest among you. (1 Corinthians 11:19 KJV) $ The errors (heresies) here was to take the Lords supper unto drunkenness and glutonly-Some died from doing so others were sick. The Lords supper should be separate from this type of eating-one can eat at home. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------ > Again, how can that happen if we run off everyone who comes up with bad > philosophy? $ I am not saying to do this-You are on the extreme of what I am saying-Talk to them -spend time with them- but the Bible teaches to limit that time and watch those words spoken.If one doesn't limit that time - one will grow used to their presence and the caution of watching those words will grow weaker-and some one will even possible bond with them--and call them Christians.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- > It took me awhile to come to this understanding. I don't expect you to > embrace it overnight, and hey, maybe I'm all mixed up or something about > it. That's why I share it, to see if you have a good response, and I > just keep moving forward. If I'm wrong, I correct my understanding and > hopefully we can be very good friends. I'm hoping that 2004 will be the > year we preach together back to back as Ruben does, or side by side as > has been my custom on campuses. We always seem to be missing each other > in our travels by just a day or two. Hey, I met your brother preaching > at Mardi Gras earlier this year, so we are getting closer! You had to > leave just the day before I got there. $ I thank you for the kind offer but there are issues that must be worked out first.But due to you invitation I will stay for awhile and see if we can work out those issues. But I have no more to say to the Mormons other then clean up-as I feel it would be a waste of time. Usually if we are back to back-it is not a good place to be as we are being attacked :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------ > > I sure hope some lively discussion on TruthTalk doesn't make us enemies. > Again, we are only talking here, discussing ideas. Iron sharpens iron. > Don't be afraid of a few sparks. Without the grating on one another, > the sword doesn't get sharp! :-) $ I have no fear of Mormons or any one this cite-as I fear God only-But I am a slave to the words of Christ-which must be put first. I never was your enemy-and spoke well of you-but have mentioned my concerns for the Mormon presence to Ruben. What we say here will stay here with the member of this group-unless clearly directed by God word to act-I also talk things over with my wife. > > Please stay, be patient, and continue to be a bright shining light. God > only made one Dean Moore, and the body of Christ needs him. $ And he needs the body of Christ more than Christ needs him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------> Peace be with you. > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. $ Some peoples peace should be shattered. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
