On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 06:55:13 -0800 "irebukeu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Blaine, I did find that post of our meeting each other at your
> temple, at
> the present time I have well over 600 E-mails that I have not even
> opened,
> with several thousand open and working on. So I did not know we met
> and I
> do remember that meeting, so I will respond to your post now.
> ==================
> Blaine: The meeting took place on the North side of Temple Square
> in Salt
> Lake City during a conference in 2001 or 2002--not sure of the date.
> The
> Conference Center was across the street. You and Dean (Carroll)
> were
> together. I later heard of the underwear waving, but you were
> apparently
> not into that at the time we met.
>
> Ruben:
> Maybe what you heard and what you saw were two completely different
> situations, because as I have said we use your undergarments only to
> get the
> Mormons attention from their sleep walking status. What do you
> think, that
> we waved those foolish garments all day? I will try to explain this
> again
> and just for you I will type ssslowlyyyy so I do not have to repeat
> myself
> again. During conference we have thousands of Mormons walking
> around and to
> ZAP them out of their stupor, we SHOCKED them every once in a while
> by
> waving those silly garments they trust in. Once we get their
> attention we
> break down into great conversations that can last for hours or the
> next day.
> Those garments that I wave, I did have with me but I was talking to
> you. Do
> you think I would talk to a small group of Mormons AND WAVE THOSE
> GARMENTS?
> I don't know what you heard but maybe you should come out a see for
> yourself
> rather than going on hearsay.
**Blaine: I did hear some things, mostly younger people who were
affected deeply by what they considered "crazies", as one put it.
Another girl, a beautiful innocent young BYU student, said, "Why do they
do that to us, we don't do anything to them!!" She was almost crying.
You BIG MEANIES!!!
Have you ever heard of NEGATIVE attention? I remember one guy running
down the aisle at a convention, once, to give a speech. He was wearing
his Hanes Briefs, nothing else. He did it, he said, to get the attention
of the audience before he gave his speech. (:>) He did that for sure,
but I am equally sure noone there respected his technique. They all
thought he could have gotten their attention just as well in a more
respectable manner. Does this give you a clue or two??
> Blaine: I talked to both of you for about twenty minutes. We
> talked about
> the Salt Lake Temple and you wanted to know why you could not go
> into it to
> preach. I had no idea how to get it across to you why you couldn't
> do that.
> I may have given a few superficial reasons why you could not go into
> the
> temple, in fact I think I did make some effort to help you
> understand
>
> Ruben:
> Hey Dean (he don't know us very well.do he?). If you think for one
> second
> that we did not understand why we could not get into your
> Temple.well how
> can I put this.you are nuts.we were toying with you like catnip. I
> cannot
> believe you did not see this.VERILY.these people are in a daze. You
> were
> played Blaine.THERE.. I said it.I feel so much better.
**BlaineRB: I also was playing dumb, sorry we could not be more honest
with each other (:>)
> ==============
> Blaine: but generally, my impression was that for you to even ask
> showed an
> almost total lack of comprehension of what your question entailed.
> It was
> like asking a Jew why you could not go into the Holy of Holies, and
> pray on
> the Ark of the Covenant. (:>) I knew then that your understanding
> of
> Mormonism was very limited.
>
> Ruben:
> Well, and now the rest of the story.. both Dean and I were
> absolutely
> shocked over the lack of Biblical knowledge we heard for you; maybe
> shocked
> would be an understatement. Maybe traumatized for the lack of Bible
> with
> someone like you. In fact Blaine you confirmed why we were there.TO
> PREACH
> THE GOD OF THE BIBLE.. because you Mormon really lack this. I would
> like to
> have your last name Blaine, so in April when asked by other Mormons,
> "Why
> are you here?" I can tell them Blaine (insert last name here???) had
> us come
> here.see or better yet talk to him. Last name please.
***BlaineRB: Ha! Is that a promise? I would love that!! The last name
is BORROWMAN.
As for my "lack of Bible knowledge," as you may remember, I was pressed
for time (my wife was circling the block, and was on her fifth or sixth
circle, and staring daggers at me--I was afraid to get into an extended
conversation with you guys--also the reason I was so nervous--she did not
want me to be there in the first place, and I knew I was going to catch
it from her as it was. I had told her I would just say "hello" to you
and then leave. Besides, there were three of you guys, all firing
different stuff at me. It definitely had my adrenaline up. You sure as
to heck did not seem like you wanted to be nice to me, though !! That is
a laugh. ROTF L
> ================
> Blaine: I was not aware you preached to so many different groups,
> that much
> is granted, but that fact alone lends all the more credibility to my
> original impression that you have a shallow understanding regards
> the Mormon
> Church's workings/doctrines.
>
> Ruben:
> Of course not. Not with that Woe is me, I'm being persecuted
> mentality you
> seem to have, you are almost as bad as a Jewish mother. When Jesus
> said to
> "Go into all the world and preach to every creature".the Mormons are
> included and if you would stand with us for one day, maybe you could
> see
> some creatures going into your conference.
> =================
> Blaine: My thinking is, if you go to so many groups, how can you
> have much
> depth of understanding of the doctrines and/or workings of any one
> of them?
> More than likely, you have a superficial, nodding knowledge of what
> they
> stand for, and that's about it.
>
> Ruben:
> I know more than enough to preach/warn almost any odd group, besides
> if we
> get in a pinch we can pull out of the bullpen our man.KEVIN.he is
> our clean
> up hitter. One does not need to understand everything.just the
> TRUTH/BIBLE/GODS WORD.all others are imposters. When dealing with
> counterfeit money, one does not need to understand all about bad
> money, just
> know what the real dollar is. When knowing what the real bill is,
> with just
> a look, smell, touch, rub, one can indeed know the fraud. I know
> the God of
> the Bible and I know imitation and Blaine you hold a wooden nickel.
***BlaineRB: My "wooden nickel" (the BoM) came from a set of gold
plates, witnessed by three men who never denied their testimony of having
seen the plates in the hands of an angel, plus eight more men who saw and
held the plates--plus the testimony of a prophet who sealed his testimony
with his blood. That's far from being a "wooden nickel." That's more
like a twenty dollar gold piece, which increases in value with age.
> ================
> Blaine: One more thing, who set you to be their (our) judge anyway?
> It is a
> high position to be a judge. "Judge not lest you be judged." We
> have our
> judges-- Bishops, Stake Presidents, etc. But who are you?
>
> Ruben:
> Your judges, Bishops and even presidents are constantly changing as
> the
> doctrine of your Church. Whereas the Bible is Rock-solid and we all
> know
> when we did we get judged by the Bible, right? We do not get judged
> by the
> doctrine of the Mormons, or the ever changing pope, and being
> politically
> correct will not bail you out.because Gods Word, the Holy Bible is
> the
> rule.. right?
**BlaineRB: Well, for your sake, Ruben, I hope you are right. But I
think your belief that the doctrines of the LDS Church are ever-changing
is a little straw man, unreal, manufactured by your imagination for the
sake of knocking the church of God. You guys do this constantly--set up
little straw men, and then deftly knock them over. This has nothing to
do with the truth.
> ==================
> Blaine: Neither Smith nor Young are here today, having served the
> Lord in
> their own times and callings.
>
> Ruben:
> Ohhh how right you are, both Smith & Young are serving time even
> now.would
> you like to join them and see where their calling is?
**BlaineR: I thought God was to be their judge, not some street
preachers who wave other people's underwear around. (:>)
> ==================
> Blaine: However, modern prophets are here, and you dishonor them as
> the
> Pharisees did Christ. But as for the teachings of these men
> (Smith and
> Young), the Church publications are full of them--lesson manuals,
> magazines,
> etc. Can you quote any of the thirteen articles of Faith, which
> Joseph
> Smith wrote to outline our basic beliefs? I can quote all of them,
> having
> learned them when I was a boy.
>
> Ruben:
> As we established, both you and I are going to be judged by the
> Bible.
**BlaineRB We did? I don't recall doing that, Ruben. I believe we will
be judged by all scriptures--the word of God--which includes the Bible,
but is not limited to it alone. There is an article in the recent TIME
Magazine, about scriptures that were excluded from the Bible. What about
those? Also, what about many books that were held as scripture by the
Eastern Church? They are just now being translated, and were held to be
absolute scripture by hundreds of thousands of people. I think anyone
who thinks the Bible is the only word of God is terrible narrow in their
perspective.
So
> knowing this can you give me examples where any New Testament writer
> encouraged wear your under garments? Or God was once like you and
> I.just
> for starters? So you knew the basic beliefs since you were a
> child, what's
> the difference between you and the Catholic who prays to Mary and
> other dead
> saints.because that's what he did since he was a youth? If you wish
> to stay
> in this "moose lodge" of a church that is your call.BUT UNDERSTAND
> ONE
> THING.. IT IS THE BIBLE THAT WE WILL ALL BE JUDGED BY.young, old,
> rich,
> poor, sodomite, mormon, everyone.agreed? One last point; don't get
> me
> started on the number thirteen..
> ===============
> Blaine: The Temple proper does not need such a sign ("No
> Soliciting"),
> because it is private property. The problem is you guys use/abuse
> your
> god-given freedom of speech, and public property, to impose your
> own
> beliefs on us when we do not invite you to do so. Do you appreciate
> it when
> someone comes along and loudly tries to cram their religion down
> your
> throat? I doubt you ever had that experience in the first place,
> since
> noone I know would do that except a few like yourself. You presume
> too
> much.
>
> Ruben:
> Well if that is not the pot calling the kettle BLACK.. and pleasssse
> don't
> make me bring up that point about your black people/white
> skin/temple stuff.
> Blaine.once again, you maketh me to laugh.does not the Mormon Church
> send
> out missionaries to our doors? I understand our rights more than
> you will
> ever know, with a cluster of lawyers that would make a small
> corporation
> envious. And I think you should understand this, if we had rights or
> not.I
> WOULD STILL DO THIS. I will go to jail for what I believe, I will
> get
> punched for what I believe, I will DIE for what I believe, this is
> not a
> Sunday experience with me. I believe and would gladly die if
> needed, but
> would only regret it could only be once.
**BlaineRB:
The Mormon mnissionaries are far from being like you street preachers.
They wear suits, look clean and neat, travel in pairs (the testimony of
two witnesses is biblical), are called by those in authority, only teach
those whose permission they have obtained, do not yell, scream or
otherwise show disrespect for others or their religions--there are
probaly more differences, all in favor of the missionaries. . .
Take Care, Ruben, nice conversing with you. Peace, BlaineRB
>
> Ruben Israel
>
>
> ----------
> "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
> may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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----------
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