of what the Bible tells you without resorting to latter-day revelation.
I really don't know much about how Protestantism reacts to thinking
outside the box, so to speak.
always Adam's Transgression. Now I would wonder if God's
command to Adam equates with law.
IT MAY SEEM LIKE DISOBEDIENCE, BUT IT WAS OBEDIENCE - FOLLOW ADAM! "After they had thus complied with whatever the law was that brought mortality into being,..." and "He [Adam] chose the Lord's way;" NWAF McConkie pp. 86, 91
YOU NEED TO TRANSGRESS TO GET ETERNAL LIFE "Were it not for our transgression we never should have had SEED, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient" PGP, Moses 5:11
YOUR BAD Traditional Christian BS is the PROBLEM. - FOLLOW ADAM he was among the GREATEST! Sterling W. Sill, First Quorum of Seventy:This old sectarian doctrine, built around the idea of man's natural depravity and weakness inherited from Adam, is at the root of innumerable problems among us. Adam was one of the greatest men who has ever lived upon the earth.... Under Christ Adam yet stands at our head.... Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction. He fell toward the goal.... Adam fell, but he fell upward. Jesus says to us, "Come up higher" Deseret News, Church Section, July 31, 1965, p7
Dont eat but go ahead if you like? Different god he has a different character. This god invites you to choose sin for your self. Blessings will follow. You must choose Exaltation, you can become like god. Go ahead bite into it.
We know who this was that tempted A&E in the garden it was the god of this world. The "only god with whom LDS have to do" The Angel of Light.
Go ahead bite into it: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
OPEN YOUR EYES FULLY
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
DAVEH: From my perspective, I'm not rationalizing at all. I have attained
my understanding from extra-Biblical revelation from God.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
How could A&E have sinned, IF they did not know right from
wrong?
Judy:
They knew it was right to obey the voice of the Lord who was their
Creator
DAVEH:
Unless you have Biblical evidence, that would be an assumption
on your part, Judy.
Judy:
It's no assumption and it doesn't take a 'rocket scientist' DaveH.
Genesis 2:16 "And the Lord God COMMANDED THE MAN saying
of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat....but" - and
they certainly knew God meant what He said and they had done
wrong after the fact because guilt and shame which is part of the
curse was all over them.
DAVEH:
Thank you......you made my point. It was AFTER partaking the
FF that they had the knowledge of good and evil.
Judy:
They knew it was wrong/evil to rebel against the COMMAND of
God. The curse does not come on people for doing good. When
you told your child not to do something for their own safety and
well being and they did it anyway - did you spank/punish them or
did you rationalize that this could not have been wrong because
they did not comprehend your whole mindset. Did you find some
way to make it good?
DAVEH:
It does no good to physically punish a child who does not know
the difference between right and wrong. First he must be taught
what is right and wrong AND he then must be capable of knowing
the difference. (Would you physically punish a mentally retarded
person for not understanding something?)
Judy:
What about obeying the voice of his/her Father? I'm not talking
about infants here.
DAVEH:
You seem to be thinking I'm trying to find a way to rationalize
that what the did (transgression) was good.
Judy:
Well that's the subject line isn't it "Adam's Fall Upward?"
DAVEH:
>From my perspective, I'm not rationalizing at all. I have attained
my understanding from extra-Biblical revelation from God.
Judy:
God does not change, He is not a man that He should lie and He
is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Any revelation that is
from Him must harmonize with what has already been written.
DAVEH:
What I am trying to do for you is having you consider the logic
of what the Bible tells you without resorting to latter-day revelation.
I really don't know much about how Protestantism reacts to thinking
outside the box, so to speak.
Judy:
Hey Dave Aristotle the grandfather of logic was not a believer, he
was a pagan Greek so what makes you think logic is the way to
Truth? It may be wiser to recognize who you are vs who God is,
take responsibility, repent for your own sin and allow God to give
you understanding.
DAVEH:
Do theologians ever wonder why God prepared a Savior before
even creating the Garden of Eden? To me, it seems a relatively
interesting question that has very important consequences of
doctrine.
Judy:
God in His omniscience knows what will happen before it takes
place DaveH so he is more than two steps ahead of all of us and
the ONLY way you will ever be able to understand His Word and
His Way is to lay aside your own speculations, then come and sit
humbly at his feet.
DAVEH:
To me the LDS perspective makes logical sense, yet the Protestant
belief as I understand it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.....
and, apparently leads to erroneous doctrine such as original sin and
infant baptism.
Judy:
Well then I guess it's your choice to spend eternity with Aristotle,
Plato and the rest of the pagan Greeks. Original sin is not a false
doctrine and infant baptism is a faith issue on the part of parents.
I would much rather be guilty of this than what goes on in the
Mormon Temple.
DAVEH: Is there any place in the Bible where A&E's eating of the
forbidden fruit is referred to as a sin, or......do the Bible authors
simply refer to it as a transgression?
Judy:
The author of the Bible is the Holy Spirit and sin is the transgression
of the law" (see 1 John 3:4) A&E had just one law/command in the
garden which was - "DO NOT EAT" and they broke it which made
them transgressors of God's law and this is sin.
DAVEH:
Like I said, Judy......the Bible never refers to Adam's Sin it is
always Adam's Transgression. Now I would wonder if God's
command to Adam equates with law. When a parent tells his
child not to do something, is it really law?
Judy:
I have shown you the definition of sin from scripture, apparently
you will not believe it. Parents are not God but a wilfully rebellious
child is a scourge upon the home and on society in general. This
is why we have civil law; otherwise anarchy would reign.
DAVEH:
Often (most) times that is the case. But not always, IMHO. Look at
James 4:17......."Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it
not, to him it is sin." This begs the question, does it not did Adam &
Eve knoweth to do good prior to partaking of the fruit.
Judy:
Yes they did know to do good since obeying God is what they were
COMMANDED and knew to do and this is always GOOD.
DAVEH:
I'd say you are logically upside down on that, Judy.
Judy:
I don't follow logic DaveH even though God's Word is not capricious
or illogical; the rules of logic are not the way to receive understanding
from God. Disobeying God is BAD because transgressing His law is
sin; this is HIS definition and the only one that counts so far as
eternity is concerned.
DAVEH:
So...you are saying a small child who transgresses is sinning is that
correct? If so, I respectfully disagree with you on that, Judy.
Judy:
No I am not saying that. I used the child only as an analogy. A&E
were created full grown - they were not infants and the one who
created them held them responsible to obey His COMMAND.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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