[TruthTalk] Astronomers pinpoint time and date of crucifixion

[Judy Taylor]

From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You and Kevin mocked me and raked me over pretty good for this very mundane point of fact that I kept saying was very simple.  It seems to me that both you and Kevin should apologize and clearly state that you were wrong on this point.    jt: FTR I did not consciously and intentionally mock you and rake you over the coals David. It would have saved a lot of misunderstanding if you could have explained as simply as you did in that last post rather than take up an offence for Mel Gibson.   I'm not saying this because I need you to be contrite, but because I think you need it.  It will work some humility in you and in Kevin, if you both can admit when you were wrong, especially after the mocking and demeaning posts you all directed at me for trying to explain how simple the concept was.    jt: But you didn't explain it David, that's the point. You just kept stating how simple it is.  It was Blaine who finally spelled it out after I had found their system in some Bible helps.   At the very least, it would be interesting to see if Kevin can admit to a Mormon like Blaine that he was wrong and the Mormon was right!  :-)   jt: Blaine is right about the lunar cycle which is minor, I pray he embraces some other aspects of the Jewish writings.   Bill Taylor has been posting some very interesting material, and instead of appreciating it, you guys have expressed disdain for what he has shared.  I have found his posts to be made with great humility, especially considering his great level of knowledge, yet many here seem threatened by his knowledge and seek to marginalize him.  We really should appreciate that he has taken time to explain himself to people who are clearly way below his level of understanding.    jt: So he has condescended to men of low estate?  I'm sure glad you arn't God David. It's not good to talk down to people from some lofty height or to be a respecter of men's persons God calls it evil.   He is like a college professor speaking to high school students, and instead of the students appreciating the opportunity, they deride the professor as being useful for entertainment value only! I am truly disheartened by this behavior.  I only can hope that Bill has enough patience and time to bear with us through this.   jt: I've never seen you speak of anyone else this way David. Why are secular systems of learning so important to you? Paul was very well educated - but said himself that he counted it all dung and that knowing Christ is what is important.   One of Bill's posts was extremely insightful.  Using the Pelagian / Augustine controversy over grace, he explained how someone might be right about something but cause some bad fruit by how he stresses his particular understanding.  What great insight!    jt: I don't read Augustine or Pelagius and Bill appeared to be offended by the way some of us communicate our faith. I've been on the other end of that myself in the past and found the answer in Psalm 119:165   Bill seems to grasp the idea that we would be better off learning to synthesize our viewpoints together into a complete whole, where perhaps a synergy might develop through such mutual cooperation.    jt: Synergy? Are you referring to the Hegelian dialectic of thesis vs antithesis = synthesis?   I truly believe that this is exactly what happened with the early church as we read about its birth in Acts 2.  Unfortunately, you do not seem able to appreciate this incredible insight that he has shared.    jt: I don't see this in the early church at all.  In the book of Acts it was "And the word of God spread and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith" [Acts 6:7]. Remember how surprised the Jewish leaders were over the fact that Jesus disciples were simple and unlearned men?                                                                                                                                                                                     Instead of even trying to bring together your knowledge with his, you prefer to beat your drum and claim that you know the TRUTH, you know the PERSON, and what someone like Bill has to bring to the table in the form of historical or theological understanding is unimportant.    jt: Who said that Bill and history are unimportant? I've not seen anyone get the red carpet treatment here yet.   This is truly a sad state of affairs and I do pray that your eyes might be opened so that you can adjust your attitude to be receptive not just to the uneducated, but to the educated as well.  There really should be no respect of persons among us, whether it is in the usual sense or in reverse. Judy wrote: I just needed to see and understand it in God's Word for myself The irony of this is that if you truly did finally understand, it was not the Bible that led you to understand this, but rather extra-biblical history.    jt: No actually it was my Bible Dictionary and another book of helps. Do you think that not understanding the Jewish lunar cycle; not being a math major, a computer geek, or a Greek scholar will keep me out of heaven David?   Once you accepted the history, the Bible's comments about the new moon made more sense and fit in very well.  The point is that until you accepted truth from outside the Bible, your knowledge about it being a full moon when Jesus was in the garden was limited.  It might seem like a minor point, and it is, but the principles involved about how we arrive at this knowledge is not minor at all.  It explains much of the cacophony that sometimes happens on this list.   jt: It IS in the Bible David, explained in Exodus at the time of the passover - my problem was in looking to extra Biblical sources - this is where the confusion is; people are still arguing over how it worked.  However this is not a problem since under the New Covenant we don't observe, days, weeks, years, feast days etc. judyt   God allows the devil to raise up heretics to make his people study