DavidM says I already accept the Bible as an authority for truth
What are the other "authorities"?
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Perry wrote:
> Actually, we know the order is true despite what
> "falling away" may mean, right? Paul is laying out
> the order. The falling away happens, then the man
> of sin is revealed, then the Lord comes.
>
> Now, if one takes "falling away" to mean a falling
> away of the faithful from the faith, then the time
> of the resurrection is unspecified in this verse.
Why do you say this? The time of the resurrection happens AFTER the
falling away. Read the passage.
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and by our gathering together unto him [the Resurrection / Rapture],
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at
hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed,
the son of perdition. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 KJV)
The apostasy mentioned (falling away) cannot be translated to refer to
the resurrection because he just framed his entire speech to say that
the coming of our Lord Jesus and our gathering together unto him would
not happen until the apostasy and revealing of the man of sin. This
seems so obvious to me that I truly do not understand how you could
frame an argument otherwise. As Terry said, the passage says what it
says.
Perry wrote:
> But, I was writing in the context of the "falling away"
> meaning the resurrection itself (see the reference I
> gave in a previous post). In this context, it would
> indicate that the resurrection would happen, then the
> man of sin would be revealed, then the Lord would come.
This viewpoint contradicts the immediate verse preceding this one, and
it also contradicts other verses in the context.
For example, consider the previous chapter that associates the coming of
the Lord and the glorification of the saints (the Resurrection /
Rapture) with a fiery judgment of vengeance upon the wicked.
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be
revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking
vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our
Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction
from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he
shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them
that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 KJV)
The verses following the passage you have commented upon also indicate
the apostasy, calling it the mystery of iniquity, which will continue to
work and hold fast until this spirit behind it is taken out of the way
and the son of perdition, the man of sin, is revealed.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth
will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked
be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: (2 Thessalonians
2:7-8 KJV)
So very clearly, the passage indicates apostasy followed by the man of
sin followed by Christ appearing in the clouds, the resurrection of the
saints, and the judgment of the nations, all in that order.
Perry wrote:
> But, I suspect you do not consider the "falling away"
> in 2 Thes 2:3 to be the resurrection. Am I right?
Right. The falling away is an apostasy, the working of iniquity.
Perry wrote:
> BTW, I am currently reading a book called "When will Jesus
> Come", by Dave Hunt. He takes a pre-tribulational resurrection
> view, and provides a lot of evidence for that position.
> Do you know of Dave Hunt? if so, what is your impression of him?
I have never met Dave Hunt but I have heard good reports about him. I
do not know his eschatological views too well, but I read his books,
"The Seduction of Christianity" and "Beyond Seduction." I'm not really
in his target audience because I already accept the Bible as an
authority for truth, so much of it was kind of boring and uninteresting
to me. That is not to say he is not doing a good work, just that I am
not in his target audience concerning the subjects he has written about.
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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