[TruthTalk] All truth leads to Jesus.

[Judy Taylor]

From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy wrote: > As I pointed out in a response to David, Paul > was advised to go to the temple that time with > the four men who had taken a vow to keep the > zealous Jews from making a scene.   Stop speculating.  Get your viewpoint from the Bible.  Rightly divide the Word of God.  Your speculation makes Paul sound deceptive and dishonest.  Do you really believe that Paul was putting on a charade to deceive the Jews into thinking he believed something other than what he really believed and taught?   jt: I am not 'speculating' and I am getting my viewpoint from the Bible as well as 'rightly dividing the Word of Truth' David. Please note that this incident goes back to Acts 15:5-11.   The elders told Paul that there were thousands of Jews who were zealous of the law.  Many of these Jews heard a rumor (the same false rumor that you seem to believe) that Paul taught all the Jews that were among the Gentiles to forsake Moses.  THIS WAS A LIE!  Do you agree?   jt: No I don't agree. This incident happened earlier on see Acts 15:5b "But certain ones of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed, stood up saying "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the law of Moses" Note: It was not a FALSE RUMOR, it was not a LIE.   According to Acts 21:24, Paul was instructed to take the vow so that the lie would be exposed.  These elders of Jerusalem affirmed their position that the GENTILES which believe did NOT need to observe Moses.  Their concern was not with what Paul wrote in the book of Galatians, but with the lying rumors about Paul teaching JEWS to forsake Moses and the customs of Jews.   jt: Paul did teach that it was not necessary to be circumcized and to observe the Levitical Law and this so-called 'rumor' was no lie.   In summary, your speculation is that they wanted Paul to keep the Jews from making a scene.  The Bible, on the other hand, indicates that they wanted Paul to expose the lie that was told about him, that he was instructing Jews to forsake Moses.  Following is the actual Biblical text for your consideration.   jt: No the Bible teaches that the leaders in Jerusalem did not want an uprising among the believing Jews. Paul did the same thing with Timothy in Acts 16:3. Timothy's father was a Greek but Paul had him circumcised to placate the Jews in spite of what he believed and taught. It's called becoming all things to all men for the purpose of winning some to Christ.  We must compare and interpret scripture in the light of other scripture.   Act 21:25  As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.   jt: So why circumcise Timothy? Note that when Paul got to Rome, he said:   Act 28:17  And it came to pass, that after three days Paul called the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he said unto them, Men and brethren, THOUGH I HAVE COMMITTED NOTHING AGAINST THE PEOPLE, OR CUSTOMS OF OUR FATHERS, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.   If Paul was teaching that Jews should not be circumcised, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LYING HERE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING AGAINST THE CUSTOMS OF THE JEWISH FATHERS.   jt: This is what I am saying David. Paul went along with some things to appease the Jews so he would have opportunity to speak to them and they would listen to the message of the cross, not being offended by him personally.    Judy wrote: > This same man upbraided the Galatians, asking who > had bewitched them with another gospel for adhering > to Jewish legalisms so please don't be deceived about > this. It's not Jesus + the law of Moses.   Rightly divide the Word of God, Judy.  The message to the Galatians was to GENTILES.  Paul taught that the Gentiles did not need to become Jews in order to have a covenant with God.  He did not teach Jews to forsake Judaism in order to become believers.  BIG DIFFERENCE!   jt: Paul DID teach the Jews that their old system was defunct and that circumcision was irrelevant in Christ; there were Jews living in Galatia:   "Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply that they may not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. For those who are circumcised do not even keep the law themselves but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh.  But may it never be that I should boast except in in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ through which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world" (Galatians 6:12-14)   Judy wrote: > ... I'll have to be Berean about it and check it out. I sure hope you check out Scripture on this one rather than just raise objections from your own traditions and speculations.  I mean you no offense, but speaking frankly because you brought this up as a bragging point for yourself, from my perspective, you have not approached this subject anything like a Berean.   jt: Not my own tradition or speculation David - the clear teaching of God's Word without the philosophical cloud hanging over my head. I do not brag and would hope that you don't find truth offensive.   Judy wrote: > Yes but I don't know that being vegetarian is > doctrinally wrong, it's a matter of personal > conscience.   Your implication here is that Torah is doctrinally wrong!  Surely you do not mean to say that, do you?   jt: I am not saying the Torah is doctrinally wrong; what I am saying is that the Levitical priesthood and the covenant of circumcision through Moses had been superceded by a new covenant with better promises and the circumcision was/is now one of the heart.   judyt