Re: [TruthTalk] What is the Meaning of God's Word(s)?

[Wm. Taylor]

Lance, I think your point was missed. I think that is because jt missed the main point you were making (you know, the one the rest of us got). Do you mind if I jump in now? I am going to assume you don't mind and go ahead and get involved with this one because I see the distinction as too important to miss.   Judy writes   >   However, you and [Bill] are unified over some extra Biblical concept that negates the judgment of God and you have yet to give any scriptural grounds for such a belief.   judyt Judy, this is just simply untrue. I have gone farther in my exegesis of Scripture than anyone one on this forum (since I have been here). I just do not throw verses around by the buckets full like you and some others do. I have exegete Luke 2.52, a great little passage that gets to the heart of Christ's atoning work. I have exegete Philippians 2.5-11, another clear declaration of the personhood of Christ. I have gone over the Hebrew understanding of oneness. I have written extensively on the biblical use of go'el. I have written on Romans 5.12ff. I have given a brief commentary on Psalms 22. I have written on the relationship between indicatives and imperatives in Scripture. I have exegete Romans 7.7-13. I can go on.   The problem is not that we have failed to give any scriptural grounds for such beliefs. The problem is that we understand Scripture to mean something different in regards to certain points than what you understand it to mean. There, I underlined it, made it bold, and italicized parts of it. That is because this is the main point and I don't want you to miss it and get side-tracked onto something else. Judy it is not that you are the only one among us who actually reads Scripture to draw meaning from it. I do too. So does Lance. Lance is saying that something takes place between the reading of God's words and the interpreting of them, the drawing forth of meaning from those same words. If the Bible did not need to be interpreted, if it did that part for us, then we would all agree on its meaning (And don't get side-tracked here either. I am talking about true believers, people with the Holy Spirit indwelling them -- I am talking about you and me and Lance and all true believers). You want to know what it means. I want to know what it means. Lance wants to know what it means. Yet there is an interpretive task involved for each one of us, before any one of us can say what it "means." At that point of saying what it means, it becomes at best an approximation of Truth, maybe a very close approximation but an approximation nonetheless. It is this not because God's word is lacking, or because we do not have the Holy Spirit, it is this because we are finite. We are limited. We bring everything we are everytime we go to the text, whether it be the text of Scripture, or the text that someone else has written about Scripture. Hence, since we are limited, finite, human beings, we may not always agree on what the Scriptures mean. We can only say, "this is what I understand it to mean."   Judy, we all have extra-biblical concepts that we bring with us to the text. It's called being human. Please, please do not get side-tracked here, because if you do, it will mean that you have missed the main point once again.   Bill Taylor ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] What is the Meaning of God's Word(s)? From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> NOT NECESSARILY OURS. Of course there's a meaning. If the Meaning of God's Word(s) were apprehended by all True Believers then...see my earlier posts concerning Unity, Division, Spot & Blemish, and on and on..   jt: The Church Jesus comes for will be unified. They will be unified around His Word; they will have been cleansed by His Word without accompanying spot and or blemish etc. Speaking of spot/blemish didn't you say "whatever that means?"  I showed you in God's Word what it means and you don't accept that.  So does this mean IYO I am not a True Believer?   Now, as an example ask Bill if he understood what my meaning was in my last couple of posts to you. If he did and you didn't...Case closed..right?   jt: I don't need to ask Bill as he keeps cheering you on like half time at a ball game.  However, you and he are unified over some extra Biblical concept that negates the judgment of God and you have yet to give any scriptural grounds for such a belief.   judyt   From: Judy Taylor From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy: "This is what my KJV says, Lance" Surely on this occasion and numerous others you've come to see that the differences manifested on TT HAVE NOT TO DO WITH WHAT IS SAID BUT OVER WHAT IS MEANT. I know from others posts from you Judy, that you're aware of this distinction. Lance   jt: Are you telling me that the Word of God does not mean what it says? If this is what you are saying then "No, I don't have this distinction and the differences manifested on TT make no difference to me. I believe God says what He means and He means what He says.  judyt     [EMAIL PROTECTED]> He comes to it? Just like TT, just like your local "garden variety" Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal, Charismatic etc. Church. SOME IN THEM WILL be without spot or blemish (whatever that actually means). There is no "grand transformation" about to take place (either to TT or to the Churches). Lance   This is what my KJV says Lance   "Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." Eph 5:26,27   Sounds to me like the issue is sanctification/holiness Jesus was a lamb without blemish and without spot (1 Peter 1:19)   Contrast Him with actual spots.... "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption; for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them" (2 Peter 2:17-20)   "These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage. " (Jude 16)