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Okay, Judy. I don't think it was I whom you thought
said it the last go around either. I think it was probably John then too.
Nevertheless, I'm with him on this one. I think. I'm so crazy blown away by all
of this, that I'm not sure if I'm even here. You'll have to excuse me, but I'm
going to have to pass on this one for a while. I'm simply to floored to
respond.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 4:54
PM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Works/Grace
Salvationists
John you may as well be talking Swahili here in
your middle paragraph, believe me God can get results without all that - are
you any better off for it? God does not consider our faith to be
righteousness if it has no corresponding actions. Remember Abraham
was willing to sacrifice the child of promise on Mt. Moriah? We not only
'consider ourselves dead to sin' we walk it out. Paul said "I
die daily" Bill it was not necessarily you who
said the thing about God remembering our sins no more. I knew it was
someone on TT and here it is. John is of this mindset (see below).
I'm happy to say that with a few minor adjustments I'm with DavidM
and Brother Elsman - a part of the New Creation in
Christ.
judyt
Wow. I come flying
back home in my Silerado -- going to hook up with Bill's post of
this morning and BAM (I think I have used that word before , today), I have
all this stuff from Miller. David Miller. A good guy.
A works salvationist? I don't think so.
But, hey, I
will answer some of your commits as time permits.
Your remarks
above: actually all first year greek grammars present the kind of
verb ending(s) I used in my post. (I have Summers and Mounce on my
shelves). I am kind of startled that this would be an issue.
Not that I am always right (an admission I can freely make on this
list because my children do not read these posts). Because participle
endings are similar makes little difference to me. These are not
participles. Present indicative active gives us activity WITH NO END IN
VIEW. That does not mean the action is on going but it can mean that
-- and very often does. With that admission, I
guess I am allowing a works theologian to go his own way. Do you
have reference material that condemns "my" application of the greek tense?
I don't think so. But if so, I certainly can change my mind.
I am going to close this post and see what others have said.
No doubt this is somewhat of a surprise to others on this list as
well. Maybe I don't have to do all the talking.
BUT, in
closing, David, let me say this: stark raving and absolute sinlessness
is a consideration in the mind of God -- not an actual event in
our lives. God CONSIDERS our faith to be
righteousness. Paul tells us to CONSIDER ourselves dead to sin (Ro 6:11) --
he tells us that because it is already a fact in the mind of God.
"He remembers our sins" no more is a
consideration on the part of God. I think lance said it was
unilateral and something or other .... sorry
Lance. I'll have to look it up.
Anyway ...
I am going to read the mail first and then, hopefully, do some
serious thinking about BillyT's post.
Later
John
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