[TruthTalk] The One True Church.....?

[Judy Taylor]

Jensen, John T wrote: [more snip]   Are you then saying you believe in an IT?  A Church apart from the people.   [jj] Not at all.  Actually, I am trying to be tactful with you Prots - I would normally have referred to the Church as 'she' - the Bride of Christ, you see?   jt: Not everyone considers themselves a Prot John - You mean you don't call your church 'Mother?'   When you say the Church guides you...what are you referring to?  To the rules and regulations of the Catholic Church guiding you?   [jj] Well, in a small way, yes.  Those 'rules and regulations' are made by people, you know.  But 'The Church' is something more than just a lot of people.  It - she! - is Christ's body, His bride, his Kingdom.  He will not let her (ok, go whole hog, jj!) fail, you see.  He guides her into all truth.  And that guidance is infallible.   jt: Hasn't been so hot so far with the scandals sof the past and the present ongoing problem between priests and young boys.   I guess everything someone sees the word "church" (mistranslation) he automatically thinks it is referring to the Roman Catholic Church?   [jj] Only if they are (Roman) Catholics.   [jj] Mistranslation?  Yes - if by 'church' you mean some sort of human organisation.  The 'ecclesia' - the 'qahal' - is Israel, the people of God, the Kingdom of David, the promise of all the prophets and that which our Lord came into the world to call men into.   jt: I understand the called out ones to be God's ppl in every age. Under the Old Covenant they were Israel and under the New Covenant they are those who belong to Jesus, hear His voice, and follow Him.   [jj] I rather think our Lord had something a bit more concrete and even this-worldly (though not of it) when He talked about 'My Church' - as did St Paul when He talked about the Church being the pillar and foundation of truth.  Jesus said on the truth that He rose from the dead He would build (edify) His spiritual community.  (Church is a mistranslation of ekklesia.)   [jj] 'church' is not so much a translation as a calque - substitution of one word for another.  'ecclesia' (or 'ekklesia' if you like it in Greek-in-Roman-letters) is not 'community.'  It is the Greek word that translated the Hebrew 'qahal' - and is the fulfilment of the nation of Israel.   [jj] And that 'nation' was very visible!   jt: The Church should be visible by the light/glory of Christ shining through her; but Jesus said His Kingdom does nto come by observation.  What does this mean?   If so, I'm not sure what candidate even exists for the office of the ONE Church of Christ than the ... Shock, horror! ... Roman Catholic Church.   jt: Jesus said who the ONE Church is - they are the ones who do the will of the Father in heaven and this kinds of trims the list don't you think? Scripture does not state this.  It is simply something that was brought about by mere men.  (Come ye out from among them...saith the Lord.)   [jj] Ah, well, we are now back in question-begging territory.  The question is whether the RCC is indeed something that was brought about by mere men, or something that was brought about by God acting through men in fulfilment of His plan.   jt: I see the Canon and translations of scripture as being brought about by God acting through men to fulfill His plan; the Church is another matter. The RCC is a rich political structure and I don't think politics and/or a lot of wealth fit.  Remember what Jesus said about how hard it is for a rich man to make it into heaven?   judyt