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!HALALUYah!
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Greetings Marlin et al in the Matchless
Name of YahShua !!
I, too, have had the privilege of knowing some Quakers through the years
and becoming somewhat close to a few.
The Penn writings of which that I wrote that took so long to procure, and
were not available in any modern published form until last year, was finally
procured from one of those five years ago ... a man who was an official with the
Society of Friends. However, it took even he many months pouring through
archives to find a very old copy with "ye Olde English" letters and all.
It is a difficult read until you get used to the old spellings/writing
style.
He was greatly troubled by it after finding it and reading it because it
was just as I represented it to be. Of course, he did not know the reason
that I wanted it, or even that I am of the Scriptural, apostolic, Oneness TRUE
faith. I don't have his letter handy at the moment but it was in my hands
just yesterday. He sent me the photocopies and his letter expressed
disdain and lack of understanding for why Penn would write like this, why I
would want it, or that it would be of any good use at all.
Penn even uses the very term Oneness (with a capitalized 'O') in the very
same manner as 20th century writers who write (and most believe) as though they
penned it (if you'll pardon the pun which was definitely intended) as a modern,
20th century term. In fact, his writing on the subject is better than many
today who believe and write on the same subject.
In accordance with your friend's own words and The Words of The Saviour in
Matthew 7:1-5 he is a hypocrite, coward, and a liar. Those who know me
know that I do not hesitate to say things face to face with flesh and blood ...
oh, and I don't do "chat rooms".
By the way, there is a Scripture that BOTH
affirms the Oneness of YHVH/YahShua AND that those who are the true followers of The Saviour will be
Torah observant.
Ahava b' YahShua
Baruch YHVH,
Chris Barr
a servant
of YHVH
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 04/09/2004 12:54 AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] What about this
William Penn, Quaker writing?
Dear participants on TruthTalk,
I have the privelege of knowing some Quakers, some of my
dearest freinds. They have done considerable study into the origins of
their own faith.
I asked them about what Chris Barr has said concerning
Wiliam Penn's beliefs about
"the trinity," "oneness," and Penn's other beliefs.
Here is what they testify:
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday,
April 08, 2004 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: What about this William Penn, Quaker
writing?
First of all, none but a handful of Quakers throughout
history ever kept the Sabbath. I think today there are only two -- me and my
wife. Second, William Penn, like all conservative Friends, did not hold to the
trinity doctrine but believed that the Father God, the God of Abraham, Isaac
and Jacob, has, and sent His son Jesus (Yeshua if you wish) to redeem mankind.
Two distinct personalities. Two distinct persons (for lack of better terms) ,
one created by the other (in unknowable worlds before us) and one who calls
the other "God." Ref John 20:17 No personage is given to the Spirit of God
because it is a PART of God's makeup not God in whole. Jesus said in John
16:13-15, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you
into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall
hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall
glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take
of mine, and shall shew it unto you."
Clearly the Spirit is one of the
things "God hath" or a power or manifestation of God but not wholly God
Himself. The Spirit of God is the selfsame Spirit that is in you. God's Spirit
-- in you -- just as it was in Christ. John 14:17-18, "Even the Spirit of
truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither
knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in
you. I will not leave you comfortless: [Here Jesus equates the Spirit
with Himself] I will come to you."
William Penn's Writing falls short
of the oneness doctrine as much as it does the trinity doctrine. In reality
the writing is somewhat a "hedged bet" (if the Quaker brethren will forgive
me). He said that he was opposed to using the TERM "trinity" because it was
not a word from Scripture. He called it a Schoolmen's term. He actually goes
on to say that he believes in the "three that bear record in heaven" not
knowing that the 1st John 5:7 Scripture was of dubious origin, for it had not
yet been discovered missing in earlier transcripts.
No, on the trinity
William Penn, though he is a hero of mine offers little ammunition to dispel
the false doctrine. But he offers less to anyone claiming that Yeshua and
Yahweh are one and the same.
I've told you before that the Internet is
a cesspool of cowards who get a false sense of accomplishment by arguing
points using trite sayings, cut and paste arguments, and electronic gimmickry
and whether they win or lose their argument they do so with people who have no
commitment to true discovery. All of their life they will stare into the "dark
glass" of their computers and never face to face with flesh and blood. The
chat room is the platform of cowards and the showplace of ignorance.
"Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink:
(Computers) but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face..." 2 John
1:12
Let me share with you the Scripture that we chose as the theme for
the feast -- it seems appropriate:
"As much as you can aim to know your
neighbors and consult with the wise, Let your conversation be with intelligent
people, and let all of your discussion be about the Law of the Most
High."
Sirach 9:14-15
Don
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