----- Original Message -----
Sent: May 03, 2004 18:20
Subject: [TruthTalk] No limits on
TT
David writes:
Izzy, I hope you do not misunderstand me, but speech
like this tends to push me over toward Elsman's side of thinking that
TruthTalk perhaps ought to be men only. What I mean is that it seems
like you are asking for the list to be feminized. Let me give you an
example using children.
You know how children only understand so much. Suppose we had our
children around us all the time, and when we had a church service, for
example, we did not allow any sermons that children could not readily
grasp. Suppose we did songs that the children were especially responsive
toward. You know, songs like "Father Abraham" with all the hand motions
and stuff like that. Anyway, if we "chidrenized" the meetings, that
would not be a good thing. Many subjects would be off
limits for
study, because they would be too advanced for the children.
Talk like you offer above seems to suggest that we must be sure not to
allow any kind of out of order speech or aggressive behavior that might offend
the ladies. I think you know that I agree very well with you that
language needs to be clean and that the particular speech you are talking
about was out of order for men of God. Nevertheless, if our interest is
in protecting the women on the list and making sure that none of them are in
the least bit troubled, then aren't we kind of
feminizing the list and
making it something that cannot rise above what women would allow it to
be? Wouldn't this be a violation of the order that
God set down in Torah, that man would rule over woman? Aren't you kind
of proving the point of men like Daniel and Elsman when you insist on being
protected?
jt: Excuse me David... Men Lording it over women as
stated in Genesis is not an order from God. It is a statement of fact. This is
just how it is with men who are carnal, unregenerated, and following the
prince of the power of the air. The spirit that works in the sons of
disobedience. They had just opened their hearts and lives to him so this
was going to be the fruit of it for women. In Christ however, all should
be reversed for both men and women. Why do men like Daniel, Elsman and
now you hold so fast to the rule of men over women. Are you all that
insecure?
It seems to me that the very instruction of "let the women be silent" is
directly toward this kind of situation. In other words, when the speech
gets rough, don't kick out the women to protect them (men only list), neither
silence the men lest the women be offended, but rather let the women be silent
and let the men hash it out. The women can raise their
objections or
questions at home with their husbands in such situations. What do you
think?
jt: Don't think so fellas .. the admonitions having
to do with speech are for both men and women. Taming the tongue is major so
why would anyone who is in the process of being sanctified and conformed
to the image of Christ want to make for themselves opportunities to let their
"supposedly dead" stinking old carnality loose? Help me understand....
judyt
