[TruthTalk] On how to win the war

[Judy Taylor]

Hi John: Not surprisingly I don't agree with Bill on this issue. Why seek counsel from the RC Church Fathers when we have the wisdom of God in the New Testament itself?  It is important to have the mind of God in Christ about these issues. The scriptures teach that at the Second Coming Jesus will judge the world in righteousness after which He will rule the earth with a rod of iron - In the meantime His followers are to be in the process of being sanctified, that is, dealing with their own issues (of the heart) in being conformed to His image.  I don't see any mandate for the merging of Church and State in scripture until Jesus' return.  Constantine had no genuine conversion before he publicly merged Church and State in Rome (345AD) after his supposed epiphany.  From all accounts his behavior did not change, he continued to have people murdered and was not baptized until he was on his deathbed. Constantine is responsible for merging paganism and public religion into the system that morphed into today's RCC.   The Lord speaks to us through the apostle Paul who writes that God gives government the authority to weild the sword which leaves the Church free to love (Romans 13:4-6) and so we are to pray for them and support them in this. The confusion happens when we try to confuse the two.  The RCC is more political than spiritual and IMO looks nothing at all like the "image of Christ" and too many times it is the Pope muddying the water.  judyt     John's response   >   What bothers me in this reply is that I honestly do not see a plan for dealing with those who are bent on our physical harm and intend to accomplish this in the very near future.  John     From: "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Regarding the topic of fighting the war on terrorism, Lance wrote  >   On a personal (community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we 'talk'. John, the following quotes are from the Second century. I thought them relevant to your comment.       "For the Christians are distinguished from other men neither by country, nor language, nor the customs which they observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their own, ... nor lead a life which is marked out by any singularity. ... But, inhabiting Greek as well as barbarian cities, according as the lot of each of them has determined, and following the customs of the natives in respect to clothing, food, and the rest of their ordinary conduct, they display to us their wonderful and confessedly striking method of life. They dwell in their own countries, but simply as sojourners. As citizens, they share in all things with others, and yet endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them as their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of strangers. They marry, as do all; they beget children; but they do not needlessly cast of fetuses [destroy their offspring]. They have a common table, but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do not live after the flesh. They pass their days on earth, but they are citizens of heaven. They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws by their lives. ... They are poor, yet make many rich; they are in lack of all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonored, and yet in their very dishonor are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified; they are reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with honor; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they rejoice as if quickened into life; they are assailed by the Jews as foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are unable to assign any reason for their hatred. ...     Do you not see them exposed to wild beasts, that they may be persuaded to deny their Lord, and yet are not overcome? Do you not see that the more of them are punished, the greater becomes the number of the rest? This does not seem to be the work of man: this is the power of God; these are evidences of His manifestation."   -- Mathetes           "But the Christians show kindness to those near them; and whenever they are judges, they judge uprightly; ... they do good to their enemies; ... if one of them have bondsmen and bondswomen or children, through love towards them they persuade them to become Christians, and when they have done so, they call them brethren without distinction. They do not worship strange gods, and they go their way in all modesty and cheerfulness. Falsehood is not found among them; and they love one another. ... And he, who has, gives to him who has not, without boasting. And when they see a stranger, they take him in to their own homes and rejoice over him as a very brother. ... And if they hear that one of their number is imprisoned or afflicted on account of the name of their Messiah, all of them anxiously minister to his necessity. ... And if there is any among them that is poor and needy, and they have no spare food, they fast two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of food. ...     Such, O King, is their manner of life. ... And verily, this is a new people, and there is something divine in the midst of them."   -- Aristides        "We know many among ourselves who have given themselves up to bonds, in order that they might ransom others. Many too have surrendered themselves to slavery, that with the price which they received for themselves, they might provide food for others."   -- Clement of Rome       "But among Christians you will find ignorant persons and artisans, and old women who, though they are unable in words to prove the benefit of their doctrine, yet by their deeds exhibit the benefit arising from their persuasion of its truth: they do not rehearse speeches, but exhibit good works; when struck, they do not strike again; when robbed, they do not go to law; they give of those who ask of them, and love their neighbor as themselves."   --Athenagoras.     It may not look like a plan, John, but it is the life we are called to live. In the Fourth century Rome wearied of its war against Christianity -- and promptly joined it. Not long after that, Christians were acting like Romans, a truth born out many times over the following centuries. I know the Jihadists hate us, but I am not convinced it's because of our Faith. If we are to win this war, my friend, it will not be with M1s and Daisy-cutters. Islam will have to go the way of Rome. I pray we will not make the same mistake twice.   "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. ..."   -- Paul    Blessings,     Bill