----- Original Message -----
Sent: June 22, 2004 01:51
Subject: [TruthTalk] On how to win the
war
Hi John:
Not surprisingly I don't agree with Bill on this
issue. Why seek counsel from the RC Church Fathers when we have the
wisdom of God in the New Testament itself? It is important to have the
mind of God in Christ about these issues. The scriptures teach that at the
Second Coming Jesus will judge the world in righteousness after which He
will rule the earth with a rod of iron - In the meantime His followers are to
be in the process of being sanctified, that is, dealing with their own
issues (of the heart) in being conformed to His image. I don't see any
mandate for the merging of Church and State in scripture until Jesus' return.
Constantine had no genuine conversion before he publicly merged
Church and State in Rome (345AD) after his supposed epiphany. >From all
accounts his behavior did not change, he continued to have people murdered
and was not baptized until he was on his deathbed. Constantine is
responsible for merging paganism and public religion into the system that
morphed into today's RCC.
The Lord speaks to us through the apostle Paul who
writes that God gives government the authority to weild the sword which leaves
the Church free to love (Romans 13:4-6) and so we are to pray for them and
support them in this. The confusion happens when we try to confuse the
two. The RCC is more political than spiritual and IMO looks nothing at
all like the "image of Christ" and too many times it is the Pope muddying
the water. judyt
John's response
> What bothers me in this reply is that I honestly do not see a plan for dealing with those who are bent
on our physical harm and intend to accomplish this in the very near
future. John
Regarding the topic of fighting
the war on terrorism, Lance wrote > On a personal
(community) level we need to be 'living' this truth we
'talk'.
John, the following quotes are from the Second
century. I thought them relevant to your comment.
"For the Christians are distinguished from
other men neither by country, nor language, nor the customs which they
observe. For they neither inhabit cities of their own, ... nor lead a life
which is marked out by any singularity. ... But, inhabiting Greek as well as
barbarian cities, according as the lot of each of them has determined, and
following the customs of the natives in respect to clothing, food, and the
rest of their ordinary conduct, they display to us their wonderful and
confessedly striking method of life. They dwell in their own countries, but
simply as sojourners. As citizens, they share in all things with others, and
yet endure all things as if foreigners. Every foreign land is to them as
their native country, and every land of their birth as a land of
strangers. They marry, as do all; they beget children; but they do not
needlessly cast of fetuses [destroy their offspring]. They have a common
table, but not a common bed. They are in the flesh, but they do not live after
the flesh. They pass their days on earth, but they are citizens of heaven.
They obey the prescribed laws, and at the same time surpass the laws by
their lives. ... They are poor, yet make many rich; they are in lack of
all things, and yet abound in all; they are dishonored, and yet in their
very dishonor are glorified. They are evil spoken of, and yet are justified;
they are reviled, and bless; they are insulted, and repay the insult with
honor; they do good, yet are punished as evil-doers. When punished, they
rejoice as if quickened into life; they are assailed by the Jews as
foreigners, and are persecuted by the Greeks; yet those who hate them are
unable to assign any reason for their hatred. ...
Do
you not see them exposed to wild beasts, that they may be persuaded to deny
their Lord, and yet are not overcome? Do you not see that the more of them are
punished, the greater becomes the number of the rest? This does not seem to be
the work of man: this is the power of God; these are evidences of His
manifestation."
--
Mathetes
"But
the Christians show kindness to those near them; and whenever they are judges,
they judge uprightly; ... they do good to their enemies; ... if one of them
have bondsmen and bondswomen or children, through love towards them they
persuade them to become Christians, and when they have done so, they call them
brethren without distinction. They do not worship strange gods, and they go
their way in all modesty and cheerfulness. Falsehood is not found among them;
and they love one another. ... And he, who has, gives to him who has not,
without boasting. And when they see a stranger, they take him in to their own
homes and rejoice over him as a very brother. ... And if they hear that one of
their number is imprisoned or afflicted on account of the name of their
Messiah, all of them anxiously minister to his necessity. ... And if there is
any among them that is poor and needy, and they have no spare food, they fast
two or three days in order to supply to the needy their lack of food.
...
Such,
O King, is their manner of life. ... And verily, this is a new people, and
there is something divine in the midst of them."
--
Aristides
"We know many among ourselves who have
given themselves up to bonds, in order that they might ransom others. Many too
have surrendered themselves to slavery, that with the price which they
received for themselves, they might provide food for
others."
--
Clement of Rome
"But among Christians you will find ignorant
persons and artisans, and old women who, though they are unable in words to
prove the benefit of their doctrine, yet by their deeds exhibit the benefit
arising from their persuasion of its truth: they do not rehearse speeches, but
exhibit good works; when struck, they do not strike again; when robbed, they
do not go to law; they give of those who ask of them, and love their neighbor
as themselves."
--Athenagoras.
It may not look like a plan,
John, but it is the life we are called to live. In the Fourth
century Rome wearied of its war against Christianity -- and promptly
joined it. Not long after that, Christians were acting like Romans, a truth
born out many times over the following centuries. I know the
Jihadists hate us, but I am not convinced it's because of our Faith. If
we are to win this war, my friend, it will not be with M1s and Daisy-cutters.
Islam will have to go the way of Rome. I pray we will
not make the same mistake twice.
"For though we live
in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we
fight with are not the weapons of the world. ..."
-- Paul
Blessings,
Bill
