RE: [TruthTalk] The bloodline of Jesus

[ShieldsFamily]

Question for you jt: How do you define “original sin”?  Do you think that a child who dies prior to getting saved will go to hell? If so, you believe in original sin. (I don’t)  If “original sin” does not exist (I can’t find it in my Bible), then we humans are only born into a fallen world with our human tendency to sin.  Then it follows that Jesus could have been born with merely mortal human blood and genes. I tend to think He was. He suffered temptation in all ways that we do. However, He was a “spotless” lamb because he was not stained with sin; ie, He never committed sin in spite of living in a fallen world in a very human body. Izzy   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:43 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] The bloodline of Jesus   From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good points, jt!!!  Now, to be the devil’s advocate (moi?) is it possible that Jesus received ANY blood, genes, or anything physical from Mary? And what about Joseph—could the Father have used anything from him supernaturally, being in the lineage of David? If so, would that mean Jesus was tainted with “original sin”?  Do we really believe in original sin?    jt: I understand 'original sin' to be a theological way of saying Adam's fall which event was spiritual although everything was changed by it (even the creation itself).  The first animal was killed to provide skin coats for A&E and sometime later the first murder (motivated by envy) happened.  Personally I don't believe Jesus' blood to be part of a natural lineage because he would then have had inherited sin and could not have been a "spotless lamb" slain from before the foundation of the world.   Izzy: Is it our blood composition or genes that makes us sinners, or is it our choice to cave under the pressure of inherited tendencies (such of children of alcoholics)?    jt:   According to Pastor Henry Wright who has worked with this for more than 16yrs some things are genetic, such as Manic Depression. Apparently manic depressives have a gene that comes through their mother which is different., but schiphrenia and psychosis are spirits.  Familiar spirits in families are inherited both genetically and spiritually and in the case of alcohol the child is born with an inherited predisposition to it - Then when it is taken (in any amount) there is a chemical change in the basal ganglia and a brand new chemical they call THIQ becomes the chemical of record; and this demands to be maintained with alcohol. (this is research that comes from Johns Hopkins which the Pastor downloads daily).  All addictions are cross addictive, for eg. If an alcoholic wills to stop drinking they will usually crave something else such as salt or sugar. Addictive patterns are spiritual problems and the enemy works with timed release.  There is a mind-body connection which you should (as a nurse) understand so that eventually these patterns lead to physical problems.  When our kids were little I used to read Dr. Spock and he claimed that "a good environment" was the answer but environment in itself dosen't shape anything and most psychiatric problems can not be reduced to a gene..  We must understand the spiritual dynamics and deal with the sin issues to ever be completely free.   Izzy: Did Jesus inherit any of those human tendencies to sin—wasn’t he tempted in all ways as we are? Izzy  (Obviously just thought-streaming.)   jt:  He was tempted in the same ways which are the three areas Eve failed in.  She was innocent at the time and she flunked the test becoming deceived.  I believe he was just as innocent as Eve but He overcame (where she failed) through faith in the Word of God; leaving us an example that we should follow.  I think what frustrates me the most about Churches in our generation is that so many of them appear to be building everything except people...  While the temporal is passing away and only an understanding of and dealing with these issues will make us free so that we can be 'conformed to the image of Christ'  I remember you mentioning 'soul ties' once and this is part of it also.  People building unhealthy ties with others, usually because they are searching for love in all the wrong places.     From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:01 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] Smithson, Taylor and the Canucks ... especially for y'all   There are numerous theologians, some of whom are wonderfully Christian, who have read the creation account as allegory and have not taken it literally. And so you are not alone if you conclude that "Adam" represents collective mankind. For several reasons I do not agree with this account. The main is the bloodline. Jesus is go'el, the Seed promised in the garden. If all blood does not go back to the first Adam, then the Second Adam could not redeem all humanity in taking on the flesh of the first; for if he is not of our bloodline, he is not our Kinsmen Redeemer and thus could not represent us.   I don't expect to get any bravo for this but it is true nonetheless so here goes -  leaving the bravos for Dylan et al :).      Jesus' blood does not go back to the first Adam because He did not have a human father and so was born holy without any taint from Adam's fall..    Jesus did not take upon Himself ALL HUMANITY.  He took upon himself the seed of Abraham which is the 'seed of promise'  Hebrews 2:16   The 'seed of promise' came through Isaac (Romans 9:7 and Hebrews 11:18) and this is because he (Isaac) was the child of promise.   You are trying to make what is spiritual biological by joining it to a bloodline.  The ONLY way ALL humanity can reach God is if they come through the door by repentance and continue by faith.   Note: Jesus didn't take anyone's flesh upon himself on the cross.