|
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Question
for you jt: How do you define “original sin”?
jt: I'm not sure that my understanding is the same as
that of the Church Fathers and I am sure it is different from what Calvin
taught. I've been trying to find a more accurate definition of the "theological"
term.
Izzy: Do you think that a child who dies prior
to getting saved will go to hell? If so, you believe in original sin. (I
don’t)
jt: No I believe children are taken care of at least
until the age of accountability and it is our responsibility as parents
to cover them and teach them until
then.
Izzy: If “original sin” does not exist (I can’t
find it in my Bible), then we humans are only born into a fallen world with our
human tendency to
sin.
jt: I see it as a little more than a "human tendency"
to sin. I understand it as a spiritual inheritance in the first Adam which may
be different in every family but is just as real. I don't see us in the same
position as Eve, that is, innocent but with the human
tendency.
Izzy: Then it follows that Jesus could have
been born with merely mortal human blood and genes. I tend to think He was.
jt:
Then the iniquities of the fathers in all of those generations (see the
genealogies in Matt&Luke) would have been part of his biological inheritance
also ...Because the Word of God in Exodus 20:5,6 must be
fulfilled.
Izzy:
He suffered temptation in all ways that
we do. However, He was a “spotless” lamb because he was not stained with sin;
ie, He never committed sin in spite of living in a
fallen world in a very human body. Izzy
jt: Sin is something that is inward long before it manifests
fruit outwardly and for those of us born into the first Adam it indwells our
mortal body from birth (as Paul describes in Romans 7) We can mentally
want to do right but the power to perform just is not there. (see Romans
7) This is Paul speaking, a Pharisee of the Pharisees, trained in the Torah and
he wrote this 20+yrs after beginning his own walk in the
Spirit.
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Judy
Taylor From:
"ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good
points, jt!!! Now, to be the
devil’s advocate (moi?) is it
possible that Jesus received ANY blood, genes, or anything
physical from Mary? And what about Joseph—could the Father have used anything from
him supernaturally, being in the lineage of David? If so, would that mean Jesus
was tainted with “original sin”? Do
we really believe in
original sin?
jt:
I understand 'original sin' to be a theological way of saying Adam's fall which
event was spiritual although everything was changed by it (even the creation
itself). The first animal was
killed to provide skin coats for A&E and sometime later the first murder
(motivated by envy) happened.
Personally I don't believe Jesus' blood to be part of a natural lineage
because he would then have had inherited sin and could not have been a "spotless
lamb" slain from before the foundation of the
world. Izzy:
Is it our blood composition or genes that makes us sinners, or is it our choice
to cave under the pressure of inherited tendencies (such of children of
alcoholics)?
jt: According to Pastor Henry Wright
who has worked with this for more than 16yrs some things are genetic, such as
Manic Depression. Apparently manic depressives have a gene that comes through
their mother which is different., but schiphrenia and psychosis are
spirits. Familiar spirits in
families are inherited both genetically and spiritually and in the case of
alcohol the child is born with an inherited predisposition to it - Then when it
is taken (in any amount) there is a chemical change in the basal ganglia and a
brand new chemical they call THIQ becomes the chemical of record; and this
demands to be maintained with alcohol. (this is research that comes from Johns
Hopkins which the Pastor downloads daily).
All addictions are cross addictive, for eg. If an alcoholic wills to stop
drinking they will usually crave something else such as salt or sugar. Addictive
patterns are spiritual problems and the enemy works with timed release. There is a mind-body connection which
you should (as a nurse) understand so that eventually these patterns lead to
physical problems. When our kids
were little I used to read Dr. Spock and he claimed that "a good environment"
was the answer but environment in itself dosen't shape anything and most
psychiatric problems can not be reduced to a gene.. We must understand the spiritual
dynamics and deal with the sin issues to ever be completely
free. Izzy:
Did Jesus inherit any of those human tendencies to sin—wasn’t he tempted in all
ways as we are? Izzy (Obviously
just thought-streaming.) jt:
He was tempted in the same ways which are the three areas Eve failed
in. She was innocent at the time and she flunked the test becoming
deceived. I believe he was just as innocent as Eve but He overcame (where
she failed) through faith in the Word of God; leaving us an example that we
should follow. I think what frustrates me the most about Churches in our
generation is that so many of them appear to be building everything except
people... While the temporal is passing away and only an understanding of
and dealing with these issues will make us free so that we can be
'conformed to the image of Christ' I remember you mentioning 'soul
ties' once and this is part of it also. People
building unhealthy ties with others, usually because they are searching for
love in all the wrong places. From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Judy
Taylor
I
don't expect to get any bravo for this but it is true nonetheless so here
goes - leaving the bravos for Dylan et al
:). Jesus'
blood does not go back to the first Adam because He did not have a human father
and so was born holy without any taint from Adam's fall..
Jesus
did not take upon Himself ALL HUMANITY. He took upon himself the seed of
Abraham which is the 'seed of promise' Hebrews
2:16 The
'seed of promise' came through Isaac (Romans 9:7 and Hebrews
11:18) and
this is because he (Isaac) was the child of promise. You
are trying to make what is spiritual biological by joining
it to a bloodline. The ONLY way ALL humanity can reach God is if they
come through the door by repentance and continue by faith. Note:
Jesus didn't take anyone's flesh upon himself on the cross.
|
- [TruthTalk] The bloodline of Jesus Judy Taylor
- RE: [TruthTalk] The bloodline of Jesus ShieldsFamily
- Re: [TruthTalk] The bloodline of Jesus Judy Taylor
- Re: [TruthTalk] The bloodline of Jesus ttxpress
