Actually, I do not agree with the part addressed in red. It seems to me that Philip 2 is in contrast to the notion that He did not forfeit any of His divine attributes when He became man. There is no valid claim to victory for a God who cannot be tempted to have overcome sin and temptation, for example. I personally believe that Christ dealt with this world as a man, becoming like us in every respect and thereby taking away our excuses. His life puts to death our excuses -- His death gives life to our destiny.
John
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That's interesting John. I can see where He laid aside His riches to become poor. I can see where He laid aside at least some of His power, His equality with the Father, in order to fully submit Himself to the will of the Father and become not only His son, but His servant and our sacrifice. I can see where He took on some human attributes so that He could fully experience being hungry and thirsty and weary and in pain and temptation but I cannot see where He laid aside His diety for one moment. I do not think that God can cease being God, and, meaning no disrespect, I fail to see what you see in these verses,
Thirty-three years without sinning? Most Humans can't go thirty-three minutes without sinning. Jesus was no mere man.
At least that's the way I see it.
Terry
Hey Terry. Few of us want to cross the line when talking about the man Jesus. Me included. I start with Heb 2:17 (you probably know it well) that tells us that Christ was made like us in every respect. Philip 2 tells us that His deity was not a thing to be held on to (grasped), that He emptied Himself and took on the form of man. The wording here in verses 7 and 8 does allow for the belief that He was not exactly like us --- and, indeed, he wasn't. He was born of a virgin with the Fatherly assistance of the Spirit; he was fully aware that his business on this earth was different from all others by the age of 12; he actually had a memory of the "other side" as expressed by his words in the garden prayer (John 17 : 5 " ...glorify me with the glory I had with Thee before the world was." He could call for assistance (the angels) and He died knowing what was going to take place next. BUT He was born a baby, grew and matured, took orders from his Mom (John 2), even changing the timing for the beginning of His ministry ("My hour has not yet come .... " words that his mother ignored and the wine was made ready). I think he experienced fear of the unknown, temptation, physical pain. He had to allow his disciples time to grow rather than simply commanding their faith and He died on the Cross. All of which are the exclusive workings of a man.
It is something -- His life on this earth -- that we cannot fully understand, I suppose. But I do believe that his battle with Satan was fought and won on the same battle field on which we engage that same enemy. If he did (and I understand your reluctance on this point, really) ---- If he did overcome sin through the power of the Spirit, knowledge of the Word and Godly determination, He condemned all our excuses (as I have said before).. I often say that no is perfect --- I am but a man --- perfect like Christ, you gotta be kidding. But if He did what God has asked us to do, well, then He has proven that it could be done after all WHICH MEANS that when we sin, we could have done something else. When we sin (and I am not talking about character sins such as conceit, bigotry and so on) we do it on purpose. That is what His life proves to me.
That makes me g u i l t y.
His death, burial and resurrection absolves from that guilt. His success at living means that no one is to blame for me except me. Thank God for the Eternal Flow.
Helps???
What do you think?
John
