Re: [TruthTalk] Christians' authority over nature

[Knpraise]

I do not like to disagree with any of you on this list.   Iz is no exception BUT ....   as a "pentecostal" believer, I have seen a number of miraculous claims  that are not true.  I know brethren  -- people that I continue to respect  -  that believe they have seen others raised from the dead, for example.  My problem is, of course, that I believe in a God who can work any kind of miracle one can imagine.  The theology of Michael and Izzy is something I cannot disagree with  -- but the practical argument does bear some weight with me.  It does seem to me that we often take biblical events and make them "the rule of thumb" without taking a good long look at the frequency of some of these events.   And that may be what we are doing here.   Christ stilled the storm one time and that event becomes the rule.   How many did he raise from the dead?   Three?  That was during a ministry that may have lasted 4 or 5 years.  How many did the Apostles raise from the dead?
The parting of the Red Sea  - once.  Elisha was translated  --  he and Jesus are the only ones.   Understand that I believe in these events  -- that they are or were real events.  I believe that they can happen again.    But,  for the most, part, the first century disciple dealt with the world we live in the very same way we do today.  Even when they were called to die for their faith, most died even painful deaths.  Few were delivered by the Lord  --   all or most gloried in the fact that their  sufferings  put them in the good company of their Lord and Savior.  

What JudyT writes in the second paragraph below bears some consideration.   It seems as though Christ believed that his miracles could have been the miracles of disciples and when that was not the case, He seemed even frustrated.   Peter walking on the water was not an event that was preceded by laying on of hands or tongues of fire  --  it was the result of his faith.  Anyway,  and least we forget, only 17 have died in a storm that could have killed hundreds.  God should receive the glory  --  agree???

John




In a message dated 8/16/2004 5:13:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Good Morning John:
 
I sat under this teaching for many years. The Authority of the Believer is taught in "faith" circles - The rationale being that when Adam chose to go along with his wife rather than obey God he passed the authority/dominion given him in Genesis 1:26 to the adversary by default which then made satan the "god or prince of this world"  and this fact Jesus Himself acknowledges in John 12:31 when he says "Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast out"  and in John 14:30 "Hereafter I will not talk much with you, for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me".  So the prince of this world was defeated at Calvary because he had no ground (in Jesus) for doing what he did to Him - he had nothing in Him.
 
Where the premise fails however is in the area of our obedience.  He (the prince of this world) has a whole lot in some of us.  Jesus had authority to speak peace over nature.  The faith teachers say that we also have authority (in His name) to do the same.  However, we have problems that he didn't have in that the majority of those who profess to serve Christ have little or no spiritual discernment and the adversary has quite a lot of ground in some of us through unrepented tradition, generational sin etc. so that our hearts are not pure and neither are our motives.  I believe that Jesus paid the price for us to have this kind of authority, it is part of the Covenant we have with God through Him and the real thing should be evident in the lives of  overcomers (those conformed to His image). 
 
Pat Robertson claimed to have prayed hurricane Gloria away from CBN's sattelite dish in Virginia Beach 15 years ago in 1989 but Gloria went on to destroy a large part of upper State New York - how can a follower of Christ rejoice in that?  I have the same problem as Terry with it.  Why can't we as believers be content to stand on God's promises which are all yea and amen in Christ for ourselves and our families such as Isaiah 43:1,5 and many, many others - these apply to His people in every generation?
 
Grace and Peace,
Judy