Ok,
John; now I will be green/bold. Izzy
I
have been reading Kruger and am not, so far, impressed. But I have
decided to withhold judgement until I am finished. However I have a
couple of questions for you. (So I can make Lance’s day so that he
can ridicule my ignorance.) (1) What do you see is the difference between
Universality and Universalism?
One involves a response from us, the other does not.
What
is the difference between that response and works, or obedience?
Imangine hanging a sign that says "justification"
next to the oen which reads "works." I put the justification sign before the works sign, others put it after.
But, reading the rest of you post, I am not sure that we think differently on
this.
What I was trying to say is that
“it requires a response” could be construed as a type of “works”.
I have no problem with that. The only question I have is What is the
response that you believe is required? I’d really like to know, as I
think we probably agree.
(2)
You seem to think that those who all go to heaven get the same rewards (ie:
heaven), and all those who go to hell get the same judgment (ie:hell).
Period. I think that is where this ambiguity is slipping in re:
Paul’s epistles. I believe that EVERYONE, regardless of whether
they are saved and go to heaven, or lost and go to hell, are going to be judged
by their BEHAVIOR/ACTIONS/OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S ETERNAL LAWS. What you
believe matters not one whit if it contradicts what you DO.
What is the point of the cross if it doesn't KEEP ON
CLEANSING US. And if it does, our works are not nearly as important (in
terms of "correctness) as our conviction. Do not forget that
the vegetarian in Rom 14 was doctrinally wrong but spiritually
right.
Our
“conviction” is reflected in our “works”
(behavior/actions). Some beliefs (ie vegetarianism) are non-issues re:
judgment OR rewards.
I agree with the first sentence. The second
-- if it is a teaching from God, it is important.
Agreed; if it is a teaching from God it is important. If God
doesn’t care one way or the other (as is often the case on things that we
humans argue over passionately), then it is a non-issue.
Kruger
has really helped in understanding the importance and place of
"community" or fellowship. He has helped to "fine
tune" my thinking on salavation by grace. I used to believe in
works. When I left my church of origin, I realized,
shockingly, that there was a world of disciples with faith greater than mine, a
realtionship with God that identical to mine, a willingness to serve and die
for the same Lord -- the only unifying circumstance among all
those beleivers is their faith. They all have verifying works, but some
of those works are not the same.
I’m glad it is helping you
in that regard (I think!) Izzy
Izzy
