[TruthTalk] Did Jesus have a sin nature?

[Judy Taylor]

DavidM: We must look at other passages to determine whether the word "likeness" should be understood in a narrow sense as you read it, or in a broader sense, as I read it. Consider the following passages about Jesus being a man: And being found in fashion AS A MAN, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.(Philippians 2:8) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by ONE MAN, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. (Romans 5:15) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, THE MAN Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) - Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, HE ALSO LIKEWISE TOOK PART OF THE SAME; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took NOT ON HIM THE NATURE OF ANGELS; but HE TOOK ON HIM THE SEED OF ABRAHAM. Wherefore IN ALL THINGS it behoved him TO BE MADE LIKE UNTO HIS BRETHREN, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.  (Hebrews 2:14-18).  If you study this last passage carefully, you will see many threads of thought that support an understanding of a sacrifice for sin that necessitates Jesus Christ being made like us in every way, including any sinful nature of the flesh. Jesus took on him the seed of Abraham, the seed of David. He was a man of flesh and blood, just like our flesh and blood. This passage teaches that this was NECESSARY in order for him to deliver those of us who through the fear of death would otherwise continue subject to the bondage of sin. The aspect of Christ being our brother, being made just like us, is very important for a proper understanding of the cross and the atonement of sin. In order for Christ to make a reconciliation for our sins, he had to be made like us in every way. This point is inescapable in light of Hebrews 2:14-18. Please carefully study this passage. You hold to the Calvinist viewpoint that our flesh and blood has a sinful nature that condemns us before God. You object to John Calvin as a Christian, so I can only assume that you espouse this major tenet of Calvinism only because of some tradition to which you hold rather than from a careful study of Scripture. I do not hold to that viewpoint, so it is very difficult for us to communicate. Perhaps we need to discuss original sin and the sinful nature before we can proceed forward on this.  Perhaps we should contrast John Calvin's views on this with views from someone like Charles Finney. It might prove interesting as well as lead us to a more mutual understanding of original sin, the sinful nature, moral depravity, and physical depravity. Perhaps our Christology would come closer together through such a discussion. jt:  Why IYO must Christ have a sin nature to destroy the one who had the power of death (a spiritual being) and deliver mankind (also spiritual beings) from the "fear(a spirit) of death" which is a spiritual problem.  You asked me if Jesus died for his own sinful nature, but that question doesn't have any more relevance to my theology than asking me when I stopped beating my wife. I have never beat my wife and Jesus did not need to die for the physically depraved nature of his carnal, physical existence. jt: That is not a "straw man" question. Reality says there is no way for the seed of the first Adam to approach a holy God aside from the shedding of blood and this has been so from the first covering in the garden. So if Jesus was born in the same kind of iniquity and sin as the rest of us he would need a blood sacrifice or covering as well.  Just wondering how you deal with this. He came with fraility and infirmity, and his flesh was subject to death, but he was raised in glory and immortality, which gives us great hope if we believe faithfully to the end. jt:  God prepared for him a body which was subject to physical death and he apparently had to learn natural things through the five physical senses like we do but there is no indication from scripture that he was anything other than holy from the time of his conception in Mary's womb on. John's testimony is that he (the greatest prophet born of woman) was not worthy to tie the latchet of his shoe and his baptism was not to cleanse him from sin but to fulfill all righteousness.  His testimony was "that he was from above" the rest of us are dust, earthly. Although he was born in the nature of men who walk in sin, he himself had done nothing worthy of death. In this way, he broke the power of sin, which ultimately is death, in both his life, and in the lives of those who believe in him. jt:  He was born in the LIKENESS and FOUND IN FASHION as a man. However, Satan had nothing in him which can not be said for any of us. Satan is who he defeated for he is the one who holds the power of death over us and scripture tells us that it pleased God to see the suffering of his soul. I have a question that I would like to ask you to help me understand how you view the flesh of Christ. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was ever sick? Did he experience the kinds of sickness and disease that many of us have experienced, such as colds, headaches, the flu, infections, etc.? jt:  I don't believe so David. I don't believe he had to cancel one missionary journey or meeting because of sickness. However, he did need to eat and rest and retire by himself to spend time with the Father. Peace be with you. David Miller.