Jeff in Red:
----- Original Message -----John, start with Acts 15. Realizing that Gentiles coming into the faith presented a problem for fellowship with Jewish believers, the council established the BARE MINIMUM of requirements in order that Gentiles could fellowship with Jews. Then verse 21 tells us that in time these gentiles would learn Torah. This evening I'll try to expand on this. I don't have time this morning.
From: Jeff Powers
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 5:19
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands
Jeff
----- Original Message -----Yes John. But when we learn the commandments we see that many do not apply to each one of us. Of those that do apply we are to follow the example of Yeshua and obey them. I find it interresting that the reason mankind cannot keep Torah is the fact that we CHOOSE not to be obedient. Yes, I include myself in this statement. Is it possible to obey all of Torah, yes.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 21:59
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 613 Commands
In a message dated 11/15/2004 5:09:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And there is no difference
between God's commandments and Jesus' commandments.
1) Does not your view of the commandments include holy days, and imperatives that involve all of the Mosaical Law with the exception of the sacrifical laws?
2) Since I am a Gentile -- where in scripture is Mosaical Law bound upon me in Jesus? I guess that depends on how you view Yeshua. Is He not the Lamb of God, the Passover Lamb? Thats what 1Cor. 5:7 tells us. Or John 1:29 &1:36. I realize this is a bit worn out (sort of), but WWJD? Look at the gospel accounts and tell me how many time the Passover is mentioned and in what context? You will see that Yeshua and his Talmidim are observing Passover. Hmm, If Yeshua celebrates Passover shouldn't we? So let me throw these at you and ask that you explain to me what they mean to you: Exodus 12:19,12:48 (remembering that the Jerusalem Council did away with this one. Though we may have to discuss this one in detal later, lets skip the bloodshed for now!), Exodus 12:49, 20:10, 23:12, 16:29, Leviticus 16:29, 17:8-15, 19:34, there are a lot more in Lev. but I think you can understand the point here. Numbers 9:14, 15:14, A real biggie in this context, Numbers 15:15,"The community is to have the same rules for you and the alien living among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the alien shall be the same before YHVH. THE SAME LAWS AND REGULATIONS WILL APPLY BOTH TO YOU AND TO THE ALIEN LIVING AMONG YOU." If you really want I can go on and on, but as James said in the decision in Acts 15:21, "Moses is taught in the assemblies each Sabbath..." (My translation), the meaning of this verse is that Gentiles coming into the Kingdom of YHVH would learn the Torah in bite sized portions and begin to apply Torah as YHVH moved them. I believe we have made the point clear that you and I agree that the Father and the Son are one and the same so this shouldn't be too difficult. One point I almost forgot, depending on your translation, Gentile may be translated, stranger, alien, foreigner, gentile, etc. from the Hebrew.
3) Am I nonetheless a brother in Christ ? Definitely Yes, I look forward to personally meeting you, if not in this time then in the world to come!!
Jeff
John
Thanks, Jeff. And thanks fro taking the time. What part of the country is home?
John
