Romans 5:8 says that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. I agree that repentance is not required to have salvation. Repentance is a response out of love and gratitude for that salvation.
I also think that you first need to recognize the need for salvation - point one in Izzy's post. And then yes respond. Accept God's gift. Turn away from sin (Repent). Then live a life of obedience to God. Suzy --- Hughes Jonathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Izzy, > > As you have taken the time to create discussion on > this topic you are > deserving of a response. This is the kind of thing > I want to see from > you. Thank you. I am at work right now and may get > a chance in my > break this afternoon to sketch out something more > complete but from > looking at my backlog this may be it for today :) > > The Greek meaning of Repentance is to 'change one's > mind' in a radical > way. This is like a 180 degree turn in the opposite > direction. It is > not just mental assent. We must keep in mind the > Biblical (Hebraic) > sense of the person, the body animated. There is no > split between body, > mind, and spirit. When we repent it is all of us > that faces a new > direction. So this is the word that Jesus and Paul > used. You and I may > now add additional things to what repentance means > but the biblical term > only involves the changing of one's orientation. > With this in mind, > only point two of your outline is Christian > repentance. Point one is > confession, and point three is a mixture of penance > and restoration. In > other words one can leave 1 and 3 out and have > repented in a Christian > way just fine. On top of this John's gospel never > uses the greek word > for 'repent'. It does however ask us to believe, to > have faith. To say > that repentance is needed for salvation one would be > wrong unless one > equated repentance with belief and faith. > > The idea of the unilateral covenant (where God does > it all and we do > nothing in response) is a dangerous gospel. You are > correct. The > problem is that is never how Lance, Bill, or I have > defined the > unilateral covenant. You see, you are criticizing > something you have > created instead of what we have attempted to state. > In actual fact we > have always highlighted the need for RESPONSE to > God's call on our > lives. Where we differ is that most on this forum > view what we call > responses as conditions. Our portrayal of the > gospel does value (and > value highly) repentance, rejection of sin, and a > Godly lifestyle. > However, we do these in response to God, not as a > condition for God to > accept us. God dedicates Himself unilateraly to us. > We, being fallen > continually break this covenant from our side of the > fence. God, who is > faithful never breaks His side of the covenant. One > key difference > between a covenant and a contract is whether it is > broken by one or both > parties. There is no mental assent to living a > daily sanctified life in > our view of the gospel; our salvation is worked out > day by day by > indwelling God's Word. To know God is to be changed > by Him, daily. > > I hope this helps clarify some things. In our > constant need to > misconstrue what each other is saying we need to > ensure that when we > comment on other people's beliefs we comment on > their actual beliefs > instead of our parodies. > > > Jonathan Hughes > > > ________________________________ > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of ShieldsFamily > Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 10:21 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [TruthTalk] Repentance and Unilateral > Gospel > > > > > > > > BTW, I don't think we ever resolved the meaning of > Repentance. I said > it is (1)admitting your sin and (2) turning from > your sin to > righteousness. Sometimes it also includes (3)making > restitution or > apologizing for the wrong we have done. So what do > folks think of that > for starters? I think John's statement that > repentance is simply > changing your ideas or way of thinking is only what > must be done > mentally before you can do the above. But if you > leave out the above > then you have NOT repented. > > > > Secondly, I think the idea of a Unilateral gospel > (where God does it all > and we do nothing in response) is a dangerous > gospel. It leaves out > Repentance! It absolves us, the recipients of any > and all > responsibility. It requires no change, no rejection > of sin, no godly > lifestyle on our part. We are free to sit on the > recliner in our holey > underwear and guzzle beer all day, beating the wife > and screaming at the > children. But that's okay if we are just giving > mental assent. > > > > That gospel does not enter us into the Kingdom of > God, which does not > start in eternity, but in fact is all around us now, > and which we can > enter into at this present moment. How? By > embracing the true gospel. > "Repent! For the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" > > > > Izzy > > > > This e-mail and any attachments contain confidential > and privileged information. If you are not the > intended recipient, please notify the sender > immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and > destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this > information by a person other than the intended > recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal. Thank > you for your cooperation in connection with the > above. > > Ce courriel ainsi que tous les documents s’y > rattachant contiennent de l’information > confidentielle et privilégiée. Si vous n’êtes > pas le destinataire visé, s.v.p. en informer > immédiatement son expéditeur par retour de > courriel, effacer le message et détruire toute > copie (électronique ou autre). Toute diffusion ou > utilisation de cette information par une personne > autre que le destinataire visé est interdite et > peut être illégale. 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