From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
DaveH, it seems to me that the LDS have to have an explanation for everything,
DAVEH: IF there is an explanation for everything, then is there a reason why those who are searching for truth cannot find those answers?
Absolutely! Philosophically speaking, there IS an explanation for everything. However, we finite humans don't know the explanation for everything. Some things are a mystery to us.
God has revealed himself to us in scripture. However, He has not revealed everything about Himself to us. Those things that remain unrevealed are a mystery to us.
The LDS hold that God revealed many things about Himself to Joseph Smith that are not contained in the Bible. I do not hold that belief. The main reason that I do not hold that belief is that I have examined the person of Joseph Smith, his history, his writings, and have found him not to be credible. I have found him to be a false prophet and a huckster. I have found contradiction upon contradiction between his musings and the Scripture. He has presented a different god than the God of the Bible, and a different jesus than the Jesus of the Bible. Therefore, he is a false prophet and idol worshipper. He was a tool (or "fool"?) in the hands of Satan. And Satan's lie, that we can become like God, which was used to deceive Eve in the Garden, is alive today in the LDS church.
even at the expense of being wrong.
DAVEH: You say that as though everything you believe and understand is right, Perry.
Time and time again I have posted that I believe there is error in all bodies of doctrine, and my beliefs are included in that.
I say that because the things that are truly scriptural mysteries are supposedly "explained" by JS in his writings, claiming that these things were "revealed" to him. (I do not question whether or not they were revealed to him...I cannot make that distinction...but I do openly question by whom they were revealed!)
They cannot allow any aspect of God to be unknown.
DAVEH: I'm not sure why you say that. I offer your comment as evidence that some of what you believe is wrong.
The Trinity (a word that men use to try to explain the mysterious relationship that is expressed in scripture between the Father, the Son, and the holy Spirit) is one such mystery. JS chose to explain the relationship by allowing two deities, plus the spirit of one of them. (The difficult concept expressed in trinitarian thought must have boggled him to the point that the only way he could resolve the mystery was to allow more than one god!) Trinitarians do not make the polytheistic error...they allow the nature of the relationship remain a mystery (since finite man really does not understand the relationship fully, except for what is revealed in scripture), and they choose to call that relationship "trinity".
They seem to think they understand God and His nature, going way beyond what is scripturally revealed.
DAVEH: First, I don't recall LDS theology as claiming it /fully /understands God and His nature. I'd be interested to see any LDS material you think supports your theory on that.
I guess I am not up on what a LDS might consider a mystery, but JS seems to have tried to explain many things that are not revealed in scripture. It is a sense that I get from reading LDS works that JS seemed to have an "explanation" for many things that are not explained in scripture.
Second......You apparently limit Scripture to what is contained in the Bible. We believe God Scripturally has revealed Himself and His nature beyond the confines of the Bible. Personally, I believe that if you limit your understanding of God to just what you find in the Bible, you may be missing a wonderful opportunity to gain a really deeper understanding of our Father in Heaven.
At this point, I limit scripture to what is contained in the Bible. Again, on this forum, I have stated that I do believe that God could reveal yet more about himself, but I believe that he has not, and especially not to JS.
Perry, go to the seaside today and look at the sand on the beach, the water in the ocean. Now, imagine how the earth would appear from the vantage point of standing on the moon. Then tonight, look up into the heavens and view the seemingly endless vastness of space. Does the Bible give you that same perspective of the creative power of the Lord?
It is cold and rainy today...not a good day for the beach. I am not sure what you are getting at with your question.
So Perry......Izzy suggests she perceives and comprehends the nature and significance of God. May I ask the same question of you?
I understand what God has revealed about himself thorugh His Son, and that is contained in the Scripture. However, there is much that has not been revealed to us. And it has not been revealed to JS, either, but he has a lot of people fooled into believeing it has.
Perry
Perry
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
ShieldsFamily wrote:
DAVEH: Do you find it easy to explain, Izzy? It seems to me that Christians don't have easy explanations, hence they label it as a paradox.1. To perceive and comprehend the nature and significance of; grasp. 2. To know thoroughly by close contact or long experience with.
These are the first two definitions of "understand". Yes, I would say so. Izzy
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*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Dave Hansen
*Sent:* Friday, November 26, 2004 10:06 PM
*To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Subject:* Re: [TruthTalk] The Schizophrenic God
DAVEH: Do any Christians really understand the Trinity paradox?
ShieldsFamily wrote:
This Thanksgiving take a look at your God. Who is He? Is He divided in any way? Is He at conflict within Himself? Could all that you say about the Father be said of Jesus Christ? If you were to make three statements about Him what would they be?
Jonathan
BTW, one cannot be a Christian w/o understanding and accepting paradox. Iz
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
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-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
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-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
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