David:When you preach, just how long are your messages? Anyone ever fall off a ledge?
o IMO no (notta) dualism in Paul o good pt on diverse understandings even within a group (like TT man!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: December 04, 2004 13:24 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] American Indians > Lance wrote: > > it is the admixture of political ideaology, rationalist > > philosophy, closed vs open-structured thinking, > > a harshness on some matters that is unbecoming > > and, not reflective of 'the Father Heart of God', > > sometimes more than a hint of dualism (a Greek > > vs Hebraic 'seeing' of God's Creation) that > > precipitates, even exacerbates a confrontational > > response from me. > > ... I'm asking if ON OCCASION you see how you > > are so perceived? > > Yes, I think I do ON OCCASION see this, but it is usually too late to > prevent it. Furthermore, I'm not sure I could have prevented it or should > have prevented it. > > We have some fundamental differences in how we view the "Father Heart of > God." I do not dismiss the Torah and the way God is painted as a man of war > who judges and kills those who disobey, even in seemingly non-threatening > ways like Uzza putting his hand to the ark to keep it from falling. The > revelation of grace does not negate his insistence on holiness and > perfection as taught by Torah. Christ made a way for this to be a reality. > > So when you say that "open-structured thinking" reflects the heart of God > while rationalist philosophy (meaning deductive and inductive logical > methods of inquiry) does not, I have to disagree. What I really hear you > saying but not quite articulating is that a holisitic approach to truth that > cannot ever distinguish between specific trees in the forest is the heart of > God, but reductionistic approaches that finely divide between the trees is > not. Your distaste for "dualism" seems to me to be misplaced as well, for > as I have said before, Paul taught Greek dualism in Romans 7. Some of you > spiritualize the word "flesh" there but I do not. I am a biologist and > believe he meant the physical flesh, expressing classic Greek dualism that > the Romans already had some understanding about. When you talk about the > Hebraic "seeing" as opposed to Greek "seeing," I think you primarily mean > Sadduccee "seeing." > > My daughter is taking a Hebrew Scriptures class at the University of Florida > right now. She calls me up often with questions, and recently she told me > that her professor was teaching her that the Hebrew Scriptures did not teach > a resurrection and that the concept of spirit, soul and body was unknown to > the ancient Hebrews. I had to explain to her that her professor and others > need to be careful about what they read. They are overgeneralizing. Yes, > there are some scholars that try to make that argument, but the truth is > that society is not that homogeneous. I explained to her that someone might > try and characterize our society by how George Bush viewed things or by how > Michael Moore viewed things. If they only looked at one, would they get the > whole picture? She answered no, they would not. I told her that in the > same way, history sometimes whitewashes out views that the particular > historian does not recognize as significant. For example, Sadduccees were > more predominate in the Sanhedrin and ruling class of Hebrews, but they did > not believe in angels or any kind of resurrection or afterlife. On the > other hand, the Pharisees did. They both read the same Scriptures, but they > interpreted them differently. I then went on to quote to her the Hebrew > Scriptures that do teach a spirit and soul of man, and that also teach a > resurrection. Of course, I had to explain some Hebrew words about hell and > grave too, but I am rambling too long now. The point is that sometimes > holists use too broad a paint brush for me. You are a holist. I appreciate > your perspective, but if you are going to argue that anything other than > "open-structured" thinking misses the heart of God, I would have to > disagree. I would agree with you that the letter of the law kills, but the > spirit gives life. That comes very close to expressing your thought. > Nevertheless, the law has not been abolished and the law is for the lawless. > As long as there are lawless, there is a need for the law. The only ones > who do not need law are those in Christ who are filled with his Spirit and > have the laws written on their hearts and they no longer sin against God or > their neighbors. > > Put another way, desiring to avoid sharp disagreements by thinking on a > higher plane of "open-structured" thinking would only result in a > pseudo-peace and pseudo-love. It is not really dealing with the issues that > cause problems. It is like white-washing the fence, making it appear from > the outside to be good, but the underlying weaknesses are still there. I > think the heart of God is to deal with us through and through. As iron > sharpens iron, it sometimes feels like sandpaper on the skin, like gold > burned in the furnace, but it produces the truly peaceable fruit of > righteousness in those who have experienced it. The sad part is that this > is meant to come primarily from the persecution of the world, but so many in > the church have aligned themselves with the world that sometimes it happens > within and is somewhat confusing then because it appears to be disunity > among believers when really it is disunity between that which is not of God > and that which is of God. > > Peace be with you. > David Miller. > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
