Do you think that the law is sin ???????????????????????? ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Re: [TruthTalk] Tearing down?
> David Miller wrote: > > I had asked in that post if Slade considered a widow > > who had married another man to have a "renewed" > > marriage contract or a new one. > > Slade wrote: > > The logic is wrong here. We are the widow who are then > > able to marry our True Husband. We are not divorced from > > Torah of Moses to marry Messiah, we are divorced from > > the "Torah of sin" (to quote D.Stern, I think) to marry Messiah. > > There are two questions involved here. First, I was just asking whether or > not a widow who married again was considered to have a renewed or new > marriage contract. Can I assume that your answer here is that a widow who > married again has a new marriage contract? > > The second question concerns the passage in Romans. You say that we are not > divorced from "Torah of Moses" to marry Messiah, but rather we are divorced > from "Torah of sin." Let's examine that, but first let me affirm that we > are indeed to divorce from the Torah of sin, and to consider ourselves dead > to the Torah of sin, that we might be married to Messiah. We agree on that, > but not on the Torah of Moses thing. Look at the passage for yourself. > > Romans 7:3-13 > (3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she > shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from > that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another > man. > (4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body > of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised > from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. > (5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the > law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. > (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were > held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of > the letter. > (7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known > sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou > shalt not covet. > (8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of > concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. > (9) For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin > revived, and I died. > (10) And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto > death. > (11) For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it > slew me. > (12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and > good. > (13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, > that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that > sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. > > Verse 3. Clearly this is Torah of Moses. The Torah of Moses is what > prohibits adultery, but releases the woman to remarry in the case of death. > The Torah of sin does not prohibit adultery. So verse 3 is speaking about > the Torah of Moses. Agreed? > > Verse 4. You believe that this verse is talking about Torah of sin while I > believe it continues to talk about Torah of Moses. Why do I believe that? > Because of the previous and subsequent verses. > > Verse 5. The motions of sin, which were by the law... which law? The law > of Moses, as he explains in verse 6 & 7. > > Verse 6. Now we are delivered from the law... which law? The law of Moses, > as he explains in verses 7 & 8. > > Verse 7. Is the law sin? Well, if we were talking about the law of sin, > the answer would be yes, but no, we are talking about the law of Moses. > Therefore, verses 4, 5, & 6 leading up to this verse clearly has the law of > Moses in view. This is most abundantly clear by what follows next. He > actually quotes the law: I had not know lust, except the law had said, > 'Thou shalt not covet.' Which law is this? Clearly not the law of sin, but > the law of Moses. What Paul is explaining here is an interaction between > the law of Moses and the law of sin in our members. > > Verse 8. Without the law, sin was dead. Which law? Again, it is the law > of Moses. > > Look at verse 11: sin taking occasion by the commandment... which > commandment? The commandment that comes from the law of Moses. > > I could go on and on, but surely you get the point. The law Paul speaks > about here is the law of Moses. He specifically quotes a commandment of > that law (thou shalt not covet). More importantly, he is talking about a > kind of relationship with the law, a covenant, whereby one seeks to be > justified before God through observing the law of Moses. I believe you have > used the word "legalism" to describe this covenant. He clearly uses words > like "dead to the law" and "delivered from the law" in speaking about the > law of Moses. This does not mean that Paul had something against the law of > Moses. He clarifies this later, saying that the law is holy, just and good. > Rather, he is speaking about a kind of relationship to that law, a covenant > of law, which is now changed by the death of Christ. > > I'm going to stop here, because I wonder if we are going to be able to > discuss this. Let me know your thoughts thus far before we move forward. > > Peace be with you. > David Miller. > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
