----- Original Message -----
Sent: December 17, 2004 07:32
Subject: [TruthTalk] Intentional sin --
the Judas factor
Jt:Why even bother writing what you just did? It
utterly mystifies me.
jt: Because there is no such thing
as "original righteousness" Lance and if Judas could walk with God in the
flesh for 3 1/2yrs and betray Him at the end then why would you think
that any of us are immune?
Lance: Is it not readily apparent to you, as it
is to every participant on TT, that John is our brother in Christ. He is
simply outlining an understanding that differs from your own. John is
thoroughly conversant with the 'standard fare' of evangelical(ism). Judy, you
are aware of that are you not?
jt: I don't assume anything Lance,
I've been in too many Churches and around too many professing believers with
off the wall beliefs and have seen too many men of God toppled from their
pedestals for that.
Lance: I ask as I occasionally believe that you,
David and, Linda are limited in your 'reading' to a 'theological grid'.
jt: And you don't think that you,
Jonathan, Bill and now JD are limited in your 'relational' concept and cult of
community?
Lance: You all say, from time to time: But
Noooooooooooo, if you do not read and interpret aright (that is: as do I and
many like me) then you do not understand GOD'S TRUTH (read what I've just
interpreted and told you is correct)
jt: That may be how you hear/read
it Lance (through your 'relational' etc grid). However, I see the conflict as
one of two choices: (1) We can subject ourselves to The Word of God or (2) We
can subject God's Word to our own theological model of how things should
be.
You have heard of "original
sin?" What about "original salvation." ?????
Anyway -- what I mean is that I have never considered myself
lost. That does not mean such was the case. I
was raised going to church. I grew up in church. My
dad was an elder in church. There has never been a time in my
thoughtful existence when I did not think God in Christ died for me. I
was baptised at age 12, back in '57. But I knew I was going to
commit to that ordinance years before. If "repentance" means a
change of mind, I have never had the need to
repent. Often the need to
confess. Am I the only one? I
don't think so. I am going to go hide, now. John
jt: Then you are still in your sin
because "there is none righteous, no not one" Confessing is pointless unless
we are willing to repent which is to let go of it or turn -
JD Could it possibly be that
you have never really understood "righteousness, temperance, and the
judgment to come but have inherited a 'form of godliness?" because believing
you were never lost is delusion.
God saved me in spite of myself. It is a song
about how I see the spiritual world. I have never had the
opinion that I was unsaved -- but I can sing "I once was lost"
with feeling. JD
Opinions
aside, brother John, could you clarify the above for me? I know that
you cannot be saying that you have always been saved, but that is what I got
at first reading.
Terry
