Bill Taylor wrote:
You go, John. Great points.
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Original Message -----
Sent:
Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:13 PM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Idioms and Figures of Speech
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If it makes you happy to believe that Bill, then live it up. I don't
think it will cause you to lose your salvation.
As for me, what you are saying is so far out that I do not know why
anyone would buy it. It does not make a lick of sense to claim that
this day does not really mean this day,or that this day can mean a
bunch of days, or that the Savior was a son before He had a mother.
Sorry, but no sale.
Terry
I just do not understand the reason for the opposition to what Bill is
saying. It is as if we cannot read the biblical message at all. In
John 17, the Son of God addresses his heavenly Father and makes the
following claims:
1) that he declares His existence as Son pre-dates his earthly ministry
- v 3. Jesus was sent by God , the Son sent by the Father. The
implication? That He was not created in the womb but was sent (from
his heavenly existence) to this place.
2.) He pronounces that He (Jesus Christ, the Son of God) is not of
this world -- his existence predates His appearance here (verse
14).
3.) He, the Son of God, was sent into this world -- something not
possible if He had no prior existence as the Son.
4.) He, the Son of God praying to His Fathers, declares the Fathers
love from Him before the foundations of the world.
5.) The point of Luke's lineage is not to say that Adam was, the first
of the creation, the son of God but that Christ -- even before his
birth -- was the son of God (Luke 3:38). It is a play on words, but
not just a play on words......a very powerful evangelical tool.
6) Romans 1:3-4 makes it clear that Christ is the Son of God, this is
true from a fleshly perspective (read "in the flesh") because of the
lineage through King David; it is true in the spirit because of the
resurrection. These two circumstances are testimony to His Sonship.
Neither pin point the time when He became the Son or Paul would have
used only one of these circumstances. He was the Son before the
foundations of the world and THAT IS WHY HE WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN AND
THAT IS WHY HE WAS RESURRECTED.
7.) God the Father chose us in his Son, Jesus Christ, before the
foundations of the world ------ the Father and the Son working from
us specifically from the very beginning (Eph 1:3,4)
8.) Phil 2:6,7 specifically states that Christ (who happens to be the
Son of God) did not count equality with God a thing to be held on to,
but emptied Himself. Paul is clear -- Jesus (the Son) gave us
this example.
9) The "Son" as declared in Col 1:13 had an existence before all
things (v 17).
10.) The Hebrews writer declares that is was through the "Son" (Heb
1:2) that all things were created. The Son predates the virgin
birth.
The Word of life and the Son of God are the same. What is true of one
is true of the other. Because this is true, John speaks of them in the
same equation, the same breath, in I John 1:1-3. Jesus is the
eternal life manifested to us by the Father. .
11.) In I John 4:2, that which we are to confess is that Jesus came in
the flesh. That can only mean that he predated the flesh. He did
not have existence as the Son, Jesus, at His birth. Rather, His birth
marked His coming in the flesh. Because He existed before the flesh,
he was able to come in the flesh.
John
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Brother, I do not argue that Jesus did not exist prior to being born of
Mary.
He is God, the second person of the Godhead, trinity, whatever word you
want to use. He has always existed. He is eternal. He has always
been God, always will be God. We both understand that.
To my way of thinking, if the Bible makes perfect sense when you read
it, then that is likely what it means. If the Bible says God rested on
the seventh day, there is no way anyone can tell me it means the third
tuesday in May. If God says "This day", He does not mean "Some day.
"If the Bible says do not steal, it means do not steal. If the Bible
says Jesus was the son of God, the Holy Spirit, and Mary was His
mother, I think that means that Jesus had a father who was the Holy
Spirit and He had a mother named Mary.
How simple can it get? If this is incorrect, if God has always been
the Father, and Jesus has always been the Son, then who has always been
the eternal mother? Just one verse will do if you can point one out.
What was her name?
That is all I intend to say on this matter. Anyone is free to take
that to mean that I am ignorant or dogmatic or hard headed if they want
to. The fact is, that it is not something important enough to get
steamed up over. He is my Savior, no matter what you or I conclude on
this issue.
Blessings,
Terry
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