[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/9/2005 6:22:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Looks like you have most of it figured out John, but as I read what you say, I sometimes have trouble seeing a concrete statement. Please answer this question yes or no ,based on what you now believe. If a theif believes that Christ is his Savior, but continues to steal, Is he saved?
Terry
Is he stealing pencils at work, pilfering words from another author, not working as hard for his pay as he could and should (a form of theft), keeping extra change after a purchase, stealing food from a tryant or seeing good to do and stealing the time of day to do what he perfers, leaving off the good that needs to be done?
JD
===========================================Stealing is stealing John. If that one is too hard, let's make him a homosexual. If that is the pattern of his life and he claims Jesus as his Savior, but continues in his sin, according to what you now believe, is he saved?
Terry
I was hoping for an answer to my question. But, whether a thief or a homosexual -- it makes no difference to me. Good question, I might add. If we take that list in Romans 1, we can add to the short list above, back-talking our parents, envy and arrogance. None of these things (in and of themselves) keep Christ from us -- all of them, without Christ, will send us to "hell." Our relationship with Christ, a saving relationship, is not one thing. "Not stealing" is no more a sign of salvation than "not burping." A willful disregard for the will of God in my life and a commitment to the resulting shabbiness will find me a prodigal. I cannot say more than this -- I am not the one who determines eternal sentence. Is it wrong? Of course. It is dangerous? Yes. Apart from any other consideration, is this person lost? Yes ------- but "any other consideration" is not my field of expertise (nor anyone else's). I do know that there is Christ and there is what I do. Two different things. One is a witness to the other. When this is not true -- one is in trouble.
You know that from time to time, I counsel the gay types ---- incidently, never lesbians, only the guys (wondering why?). I have been in their homes. In a number of cases, I see no reason to believe that they are saved. I have seen some really disgusting things. Also, I have seen a number of addicts who have completely given in to their addiction. Most, in fact. No fight is left. No continued confession. Nothing. Not good for them at all. And I do not blame the addiction -- we are all responsible for our circumstance. Romans 14:4 is important to me as a (pastoral) counselor -- the reality of standing and falling is circumvented by the Master's MAKING US TO STAND. If the sinner (aren't we all) rejects that assistence - well, then, he is on his own. I pray to never heard those words from the Lord, "John, you are, now, on your own !!!"
Hopefully that gives answer. In a practical sense -- you and I are on the same page, I am sure of that.
John
