[TruthTalk] Good News!

[Judy Taylor]

jt: I hear what you are saying David and I'm familiar with John 6:44.  But remember Jesus had just gotten through telling these Jews that He was the "Bread of life" and that ALL the Father gave to Him would come to Him and at this point He had been teaching for almost three years after having been supernaturally anointed by the Holy Spirit for ministry at His baptism in the Jordan River.    We are told how "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil for God was with him" (Acts 10:38). The Spirit and Word work simultaneously which is what we see in Acts and all of the Epistles so we would need more than John 6:44 to construct a "wooing doctrine".  I hope you will agree that Jesus is the Model for ministry.    Peter's epiphany happened before the Holy Spirit or Promise was sent to indwell men (He )the Spirit) was with them in the person of Christ and apparently went along with the 70 when Jesus sent them out but he was not yet "in them").  Both  blessings and curses are transmitted generationally which explains why some people are more open to receiving truth than others but we should never give up on anybody.   As for broken hearts; I'm not quite so dramatic but it greatly saddens me to see so little interest in God's Word. People are so excited over the prospect of hearing the words of Athanasius, Polyani, or whoever their latest theological fad is, just like the people Paul encountered at Mars Hill in Athens.  But I see none of this happening when it comes to God's Word which is labelled "scripture bombing" and received as "Ho Hum" or else mixed with the words of theologians and distorted until it is unrecognizable.    Unless there is something more concrete David I see this "wooing" as a good example of what is wrong.  Only the Word delivered in the power of the Spirit can open the hearts of the people.  God sent John the Baptist to prepare the way for Jesus the Word  - this would have been a wonderful opportunity for the Spirit to woo (if that were his job) before the arrival of the Word Himself don't you think?    judyt     From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bill wrote: I am talking about the Holy Spirit working in unison with the Gospel, even before the Gospel is preached. Do you not think that happens?   Judy wrote: No I don't Bill.  That would be magic and God isn't into those kinds of things. In His economy faith comes by hearing and hearing - by the Word of God.   Bill wrote: ... I believe that not a single person would ever come to faith in Jesus Christ were it not for the Spirit preparing that person to respond to him in faith. Where my teaching diverges from classical Calvinism is that where the Calvinists believe that only some are wooed by the Spirit. I believe that the Spirit woos every single person who will have an opportunity to hear the Gospel. Another point ofdivergence is that they believe this wooing is irresistible; I do not.   Judy wrote: I'd lay Calvin's ideas aside entirely and trust the Holy Spirit to reveal God's Word.  Where in scripture does this idea of "wooing" originate? I don't believe I have ever seen it.   DM: John 6:44 (44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him What Bill is talking about is not "magic."  It simply refers to the fact that God's grace is necessary before a person will believe in Christ.  The working of God's grace is through the Spirit of God to woo or draw that person to believe the gospel.  John 6:44 speaks about a working of the Father upon a person before that person will be in a place where he can respond to the gospel and follow Christ.  When Peter professed Jesus to be the Christ, Jesus said, "flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven" (Mat. 16:17).  This again speaks of a working of God within the person that goes far beyond any preaching or teaching that turns that person to the Lord.  This passage speaks about an inward revelation working within the person.  1 Cor. 12:3 also testifies to this, saying that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.