RE: [TruthTalk] Word of God

[Debbie Sawczak]

I am still thinking about this post of G's, below. Is Barth being descriptive or prescriptive in this quote? Is he saying that it is impossible that Revelation, Scripture, and preaching should ever be separate, or that they should never be separated by us? If your answer is "descriptive", I have trouble getting my head around it, unless we use a circular argument that the only "real" preachers are those whose preaching is (for which we have no option but to read: can be seen to be) in union with Scripture-Revelation.    Also still thinking about language/concepts and reality. The astonishing thing is that God did think it worthwhile to use, at all, such a limiting vehicle as language to reveal the truth. The fact that language is created by God tells me two things: that it is essentially good and capable of doing its job excellently, and that it must always, even when untainted by sin, be less than that part of reality which is the Person who created it. There are other ways God revealed himself too, of course--the creation, and the Incarnation, which might be considered an intersection of the other revelations.   In an earlier post I asked how, if our concepts are all we have to think with, we can ever get out of them, i.e., change/learn. All unbidden, a friend sent me the following quote from Lesslie Newbigin: "We indwell our language, our concepts, our whole plausiblity structure. That is why no one is conscious of the plausibility structure unless something happens to show that it is failing to cope with reality as it is being experienced." One of you--maybe Charles or David--said much the same thing. But I'm thinking there is a lot packed into that word "experienced". You can always insulate yourself from experiencing reality by (a) taking care to stay within a familiar, narrow reality for which your existing "plausibility structure" has already comfortably accounted or (b) when you do encounter other reality, wrenching or re-interpreting it to fit your plausibility structure and convincing yourself you have accounted for it.   This to me is where being with others comes in. You do not have access to the full range of reality all by yourself. Obviously, not all communities are healthy, by a long shot, and communities can hide from reality too. There is a place for individuals to exercise judgment. And "community" can be understood in different ways, as JD has done with some of the examples Kevin cited from the Bible (doesn't necessarily mean your local church). But I think we deceive ourselves if we pretend it can ever just be "me and the Spirit" dealing with the Revelation-Scripture. If Barth is right, that's an incomplete duo. Other people, consciously and deliberately or not, have a way of rubbing our faces in reality we have hitherto managed to avoid experiencing, or that we have managed to crush into our system. Sometimes we can (knowingly or unknowingly) resist the Spirit in a way that we cannot brush off other people. That's why he sends them. Don't forget all of us who belong to him have his Spirit within us.   Then there's the other part of the Newbigin quote, operative at the same time: we can even be experiencing reality in a mode of openness and not notice the dissonance till "something happens to show" it. (Please, God, drop the "something" into my experience when I need it!) It's conceivable that such a "something" might be noticed by, or noticeable to, oneself alone.   This was a "longie"--I'm sorry, and always wary of what I've said. But hoping to avoid the thread getting mired in a swamp of polarities. (Lousy metaphor, I know!)   Debbie    -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:23 AM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Definition of Mormon Please God's Word appeals to us a certain way as truth; e.g.,   "..I distinguish: the Word of God in a first, original address, in which God himself, God alone, is the One who speaks; in a second address in which there will be added to the Word a very definite caregory of human beings, the prophets and apostles; and, in a third address, in which the number of these His human bearers or proclaimers will be theoretically unlimited. But 'the Word of God abides forever.' It is no other; it becomes no other, in that it is now the first, now the second, now the third; and always, when it is one of the three, it is in some sense also the other two. The Word of God on which dogmatics reflects is..one in three, three in one : Revelation, Scripture, preaching; Word of God the Revelation, Word of God the Scripture, Word of God preaching, not  to be confused and not to be separated. One Word of god, one authority, one truth.."   in part, the author (not Dr. Seuss:) is saying that God's 'revelation' is not a disjunct prophetic category apart from 'Scripture' per se; it is part of a tri-unity in which the Word exists, or, of trinity which some say the author, above, alludes to the filioque (an early creedal doctrine discussed in other TT threads)..   who is the author?   from the Evangelical fringe, Karl Barth, (IMO) unnecessarily 'expulsed' from the Bible Students Union rank and file   ftr, no one here has been 'expulsed' like him; 'repulsed', maybe often, however, that comes with the territory of Truth Talk, an environment where 'truth' itself is questioned by design..   also, regardless of anybodies' 'revulsion' at him, i suspect Barth would've enjoyd us, TT..anyway, when you find the core value/s of 'truth' for us, post it(!) (..and suffer:)       "Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew 'You can't open your mind, boys To every conceivable point of view.' They got Charles Darwin trapped out there on Highway Five Judge says to the High Sheriff, 'I want him dead or alive Either one, I don't care.' High Water everywhere ..The Cuckoo is a pretty bird, she warbles as she flies I'm preachin' the Word of God I'm puttin' out your eyes I asked Fat Nancy for something to eat, she said, 'Take it off the shelf - As great as you are a man, You'll never be greater than yourself.' I told her I didn't really care High water everywhere.." Bob Dylan, Copyright © 2001 Special Rider Music     On Sat, 22 Jan 2005 22:39:11 -0600 "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [about]..studying..God’s Word